Report a Player - C O O L - RDM (Action Taken)

Your In-game name

SI sciencefreak74 [RT602]

Name of the player(s) you are reporting

C O O L

Date of the incident

05/02/18

Time of the incident (GMT)

1630

What best describes this incident ?

RDM

Which server did the incident take place on

Server 1

Please (in detail) describe the incident

PC Mclaughlin and I decided to go patrol the Athira area in a prowler. However, Mclaughlin had "NLR" for the RBA international reserve so we decided to keep a long way away from it and go around to get to Athira. On our way, we came across a speeding van and so decided to go after it for speeding. At the time the van was the only vehicle we saw. However, as we went around the corner I heard what sounded like a qilin and moments later "C O O L" opened fire on us from within the qilin and killed Mclaughlin (his family has been informed). I also became seriously wounded in the ordeal but was fortunate enough to recover from my injuries later in hospital.

When we went to talk to C O O L he believed that regardless of the distance from the International reserve as his gang had shot at cops somewhat recently he was okay to shoot at us.

Link to any evidence (Youtube/Screenshot)

https://plays.tv/video/5a788bdd772dca0c68/cool-rdm
This report is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth!

Yes

You tried to resolve the situation with the player(s) before reporting

Yes

This is not a revenge report (Abuse will lead to forum/community bans)

Yes

Erm we resolved this in laison where I was told it was all good by both you and McLaughing?????? @McLaughlin

sciencefreak74 said:

When we went to talk to C O O L he believed that regardless of the distance from the International reserve as his gang had shot at cops somewhat recently he was okay to shoot at us.

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Can you please provide some kind of evidence of me stating this. Perhaps also include the part where I am told it is resolved and I am good to go

It is not my place to confirm or deny what another officer said. However, I personally did not say that this was resolved as in my opinion it is not resolved.

sciencefreak74 said:

When we went to talk to C O O L he believed that regardless of the distance from the International reserve as his gang had shot at cops somewhat recently he was okay to shoot at us.

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If you want to deny stating something to that effect and have another defense for it that is fine by me and I look forward to hearing it.

sciencefreak74 said:

It is not my place to confirm or deny what another officer said. However, I personally did not say that this was resolved as in my opinion it is not resolved.

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I got called to laison by McLaugh. Me, Simon, him and you talk about the situation. At the end I ask if we are all good and Mclaugh says it is fine and its resolved. We wished eachother a nice day and I said thanks for reolsving. Can be confirmed by @McLaughlin and @Simon (Was the driver of the black van) 

Ts conversation with Sciencefreak after report was posted. Pretty easy to see from this how it went down. Me and McLaughing resolved it, but science chooses to ignore that and just sit silently in the room letting me leave and then afterwards claim it was not resolved with him. 



I have to leave for work now since im working night this week. I will upload my POV etc tomorrow when I get home from work. Please allow me 24 hours to reply

After we left the Teamspeak liaison myself and McLaughlin spoke and he agreed with me that you should be reported. Like me, he believed you knew what you were doing and chose to do it anyway but I'll leave it to McLaughlin to confirm that. Personally, that doesn't seem like someone who is happy the situation has been fully resolved to me.

Just to confirm Cools point of view, I was in the liaison as the time as I was the van being followed by these buys for "Speeding". 

We talked to McLaughin and Sciencefreak for a while, explained out point of view stating that it was approximately 1.5 min from when we left the RBA and Approx 4 min since we killed the last officer at the RBA. We further explained that we had left in convoy from the RBA, myself in the black Van, Cool in the Quilin & Another in the truck boxer, making our way to the laundering without going anywhere near the greenzone at the airport to avoid any issues there. 1.5min after leaving the RBA we find the quilin with a gunner, heading straight to the Van. Given it was such a short period of time after leaving the RBA we assumed this prowler had spotted us leave and followed us. 

We had a message from McLaughin to discuss what happened so we finished up with the money and made our way to liaison. McLaughin asked our point of view of the situation and said he completely understood our point of view and it was largely a case of wrong place wrong time. We were asked what we would have done if the situation was slightly different, for example passing a police car on the main road as McLaughin and sciencefreak wanted to be sure that we were not of the opinion that we were free to kill any police officer we like as we had done the RBA. This is not the case, we were of the opinion that the prowler were only for use in operations and chose to engage based on this. McLaughin and Sciencefreak explained that because of the current threat level this was not the case and these are available to officers of certain ranks. Obviously going forward we will take this into consideration.

sciencefreak74 said:

When we went to talk to C O O L he believed that regardless of the distance from the International reserve as his gang had shot at cops somewhat recently he was okay to shoot at us.

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At no point was the above statement explicitly said, During the TS convo McLaughin even went as far to say "It is fine, I completely understand your point of view. I dont want to report anyone". This would be a perfect time for sciencefreak to interject stating that he was not happy with this and suggest a way forward. From my point of view sciencefreak sat largely quietly in the liaison room and failed to bring up any suggested resolution or take issue with what was being discussed.

sciencefreak74 said:

After we left the Teamspeak liaison myself and McLaughlin spoke and he agreed with me that you should be reported. Like me, he believed you knew what you were doing and chose to do it anyway but I'll leave it to McLaughlin to confirm that.

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If that was the case why was it stated that the situation was resolved, and if you had changed your mind about that why did you choose not to bring up exactly what your issue is with cool before posting a report a player.

I would also like to draw you attention to the start of the video, where it sounds rather like someone that has died in the situation at the RBA telling other officers on teamspeak not to go to there as we are set up everywhere... If I am wrong then fair enough, my apologies to whoever that was.

Simon- said:

I would also like to draw you attention to the start of the video, where it sounds rather like someone that has died in the situation at the RBA telling other officers on teamspeak not to go to there as we are set up everywhere... If I am wrong then fair enough, my apologies to whoever that was.

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The person who was telling them not to go to the RBA was me and I had not died but had heard the previous radio comms of the other officers before they died.

Anyway, you both seem to be very much focused on the fact that in your "opinion" the situation was resolved. The situation was not resolved and now we are here in order for you to prove that you did not break a rule not for you to argue the outcome of a ts conversation.

sciencefreak74 said:

Anyway, you both seem to be very much focused on the fact that in your "opinion" the situation was resolved. The situation was not resolved and now we are here in order for you to prove that you did not break a rule not for you to argue the outcome of a ts conversation.

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You seem to be over looking the fact that when asked if this was resolved, it was stated yes.

You have stated that you have attempted to resolve this situation, however as you have stated you have brought up further issues with McLaughin after you had told us this had been resolved and failed to discuss these issues with any party involved. 

So your statement that you’ve attempted to resolve this issue would appear to be false.

Perhaps you would like to further discuss your issue with Cool?

Simon- said:

you have stated you have brought up further issues with McLaughin

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I bought up no further issues with McLaughlin we simply expressed our opinions based on what had been said by you and cool in the ts room. This situation was not resolved in Teamspeak and yet we went to Teamspeak to resolve it. This, in my opinion, is attempting to resolve it. During the ts room liaison, you guys both believed you were right to do what you did. Unless either of you has in the last couple hours came up with another reason why you believe you were correct to do what you did then I wouldn't see much point in going to liaison.

During the conversation the following statements were made

1. when I apologised, I was interrupted my mclaughin saying “no don’t worry about it, I completely understand your point of view”

2. “So are we all good mate” “yes we are fine”

3. McLaughlin: “I don’t want to report anyone, I want to make sure you knew you can’t just shoot any officer after doing a RBA

I fail to see how anyone could interpret any of these statements any other way than you were happy with the outcome of the conversation.

If you were unhappy with the conversation, why did you refrain from stating so when cook asked are we all good? 

This is meant to be a community of players and from our conversation I would really find it hard to believe that you or McLaughin genuinely think what was done was with the specific intent of breaking any server rules. To this point I find it a clear depiction of your character when you choose to extract and twist an accusation that you made of cool during the conversation into a statement that you are portraying to the administration team as fact. Yet you feel no obligation to recall any of the extensive conversation regarding the events, which were very civilised and both sides seemed to understand each other’s point of view, apologies were made and everyone wished a pleasant evening.

I feel it appropriate to hear the opinion of @McLaughlin as he seemed to be leading the resolution from your side, and was even joking about the fact he had said to you to take out something “normal”, so no confusion would occur and you wouldn’t loose it.

I have nothing else to add and will not be replying further unless explicitly asked to.

Simon- said:

I find it a clear depiction of your character when you choose to extract and twist an accusation that you made of cool during the conversation

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I see no reason to bring personal attacks into this. 

Simon- said:

I would really find it hard to believe that you or McLaughin genuinely think what was done was with the specific intent of breaking any server rules

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I believe cool knew he was breaking server rules, but only cared about the cargo you were transporting and getting it to wherever you wanted to go safely and as such he was willing to take the risk in order to protect the cargo.

sciencefreak74 said:

I believe cool knew he was breaking server rules, but only cared about the cargo you were transporting and getting it to wherever you wanted to go safely and as such he was willing to take the risk in order to protect the cargo.

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No one in the group would knowingly risk a potential ban for financial gain, let alone for the 4 ish mil that was going to be split between 12. However I’m sure he will be back in the morning to add show his side.

I don't want to see Cool get anything more than a warning for this, I am stuck between piller and post here (Irish for being stuck in the middle) as I can understand why he shot me but also understand it was a technically a RDM kill I hope admins agree with me on this. Cool was very nice and understanding to me in liaison when we spoke and I am genially sorry that it has come to this Cool.

McLaughlin said:

I don't want to see Cool get anything more than a warning for this,

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I agree. I would much rather see him receive a warning rather than being banned. I have spoken to a few people who know C O O L who believe he didn't mean to break any rules. With me not knowing him myself I personally have no way of knowing if this is the case or if it was an intentional rule break. As such, I would just like it noted down in the form of a warning in case he attempts something like this again. This does not mean the situation is resolved I would just not like to see him banned for this.

sciencefreak74 said:

I agree. I would much rather see him receive a warning rather than being banned. I have spoken to a few people who know C O O L who believe he didn't mean to break any rules. With me not knowing him myself I personally have no way of knowing if this is the case or if it was an intentional rule break. As such, I would just like it noted down in the form of a warning in case he attempts something like this again. This does not mean the situation is resolved I would just not like to see him banned for this.

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If you didn' want me banned you shouldn't have reported me? We could have gone support and asked for their pov where we perhaps could have agreed to a warning or a note. 

I'l post my pov at like 4-5 tomorrow when I wake up and get it uploaded

The purpose of player reports is not always to get people banned. When ready the appropriate staff will read this and come to their own conclusion as to whether you broke any rules. If so hopefully they will take note of what I said and not ban you but ultimately that is up to the decision of the staff member to decide on the punishment for rule breaks.

Alright here we go. First I would just like to express that I think it is ridiculus that we used 30 minutes in liaison solving it and now I have to use another 30 minutes if not more dealing with the report. I left laison with the statement from McLaughing the guy that also called me there that it was “All good”. I then return from eating dinner and see that Science has put up a report without even bothering to contact me in any way or say anything doing resolving. Believe this is well displayed in the screenshot above and the comments aswell.

Apparently recording every minute of gameplay on this server to avoid getting banned 24/7 is not enough. Now you also have to record laison conversations. People are allowed to tell you that they wont report you and then still do it afterwards? It is a damn miracle that I still have my recording. It is up to staff what community they want to have. It is clearly proven below that we were in laison and was told it was all good by McLaughing and at no point did Science mention anything about being unhappy about it. Yet still I am reported. Anyways up to staff what community they want to have. One where you are to believe what people say or always expect to be backstabbed and not to trust anybody but yourself.

Now on to the situation. Here is my POV I have made a timeframe and explained what happened. Below I will explain why I shot.

Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rb8Tbx1RSyc

Timeframe of my video:

1:17 PC Crapshot is killed

3:29 Leave area of RBA. As we are also leaving a cop is spotted inside of the RBA area by the barracks. Indicating the cops have not yet given up.

4:30 the prowler shows up. Racing across the field straight towards the truck coming from where we had last seen a cop car and a hunter coming (airport).

4:48 I open fire

So roughly its 3,5 minutes after the last cop was killed until I shot at you and 1,10-30  from when we leave depending on where the border of the RBA goes.

I would also like to request a longer video from science showing his clear involvement in the RBA. He was driving the hunter at RBA called out in my video (1:48 ish “The hunter went back to airport or he might be going laundry”). So judging by the time stamp in my video he must have just hit HQ when his video started making him look very innocent.

Now the reasons why I fired were:

1.       The time. Was 3.5 mins after last cop was killed. Was 1.30 since we left the RBA and an additional cop was spotted at the RBA, even tho he was not killed before I fired.

2.       Direction of the prowler. We saw multiple vehicle retreat back to airport to either take on us on the way, set up at laundry or pull off. Pull off was out the picture as there was still cops at RBA. When we see a prowler coming straight at the trucks from NPAS it is clear the police would try to take on the way to laundry. I thought the cops had regrouped at airport to perhaps get out a prowler to set chase.

3.       Vehicle. They were in a prowler with an armed cop on top. At the time I thought this was a operation only vehicle since I have only ever seen it at HMs. This was indicating clear involvement in the RBA to me.

4.       Distance. The distance to the RBA is 1,9 km from where you I shot. The closest dead officer is only 1,3 km.

You can hear in the video that in the heat of the moment I had no doubts at all that the prowler was indeed involved and fired straight away. Obsly it turned out that it was not involved also why both me and Simon apologized to you both, but we were then told that It was all fine and that it was just a matter of wrong place wrong time. I still believe it was wrong place wrong time. Just like in the comments above it has been made clear by everybody that it was not the case of intended RDM and everybody understands my reasons for firing. Yet with this in mind that was not enough for Science. He for some reason demands a punishment being a ban or a warning. I am just wondering why it is needed and why it is handled this way. Like I said before we could have easily went support and I offered to resolve it with you again that you blatantly denied. I am still offering to resolve it with you in case you change your mind. I do not think it is warning worthy as it is simply a case of wrong place wrong time. There is no way for me to know you are not involved. Which brings me to my next point.

Why did you go where you did. Fair enough you want to pull out of the RBA. From the evidence provided you went to NPAS with your hunter then took out a prowler and went straight back to the situation that you were previously involved in. I know that you claimed not to have known what trucks we had but cmon. I have been in the police on many servers. The first thing that is called out is the trucks “They have 2 hemmt boxes and a tempest” for example. I am almost certain somebody called it in. Multiple cops on foot would have been able to see it not to mention NPAS.

After pulling out you decide it is a good idea to go just 1,7-9 km away from the RBA going right to the most used route for RBA trucks. I have made a map below to indicate this:

https://i.imgur.com/UeYIeqb.jpg

You went straight on the most used route and decided it would be a good idea to pull over trucks only 1,9 km away from the RBA. You claim to not have known what trucks, but I still don’t believe that. You are only 1,3 from the nearest dead cop. I would say that this is even borderline NLR from McLaughing. To get a better picture of this I have remade the scenario at HM below. It would be the same if you had died or pulled out of a HM and then went ahead to pull trucks over in the marked areas. The NLR rule states “Your character cannot return within 1000m of the location of death or be involved in the same combat situation until the 15 minute NLR timer has expired.” There was a dead cop 1,3 away. Is it pretty common that a “combat area” is about 2 click radius to because of snipers etc.

McLaughing and you are getting involved in combat situation where he died there for breaking NLR. Below is the map for the HMs showing what you did at RBA. When you die you are not allowed to get involved in the same combat situation do you really think going 1,3 away from the nearest dead cop and 1,9 from compound is doing that during a RBA is avoiding the combat situation? I don’t think it is. Science claims to not be a part of the RBA, but Is he not a part of it? According to my video he drives his hunter back to NPAS at 1:48 and at 4:30 the prowler shows up. Spending 1 minute in HQ changing car and going straight back to the situation does not remove him from the situation in my opinion at least.

https://i.imgur.com/vS7kbcQ.jpg

At the end of the day I don’t want anybody to get warnings or bans, but if I do get a warning for this then I strongly believe that McLaughing should get one for breaking NLR as he put in no effort at all to stay away from an ongoing RBA.

Turns out I have now used about an hour uploading the video and writing this. Means I have now used one and a half hour on this situation now. If you are so hungry to get people warnings or bans then just report them straight away instead of wasting their time pulling them to liaison to tell them its fine and then report anyway. I feel sorry for the staff member that must use a long time on this report as well. All could have been avoiding by simply not lying to us in liaison or going support. Feel free to ask anything regarding the situation. Good luck to staff 

McLaughlin said:

I don't want to see Cool get anything more than a warning for this, I am stuck between piller and post here (Irish for being stuck in the middle) as I can understand why he shot me but also understand it was a technically a RDM kill I hope admins agree with me on this. Cool was very nice and understanding to me in liaison when we spoke and I am genially sorry that it has come to this Cool.

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Can I just ask what made you change from "Its all good" to reporting me? 

I quote "he has his sirens on for some reason". One would almost be led to believe we activated the sirens to indicate to the van it should pull over as it was speeding. As you can see from your video, Mclaughlin had plenty of time to open fire on your vehicle but had no reason to as we were following standard procedures for a speeding vehicle. If you look at the video, Mclaughlin doesn't even have his weapon pointed.

Cool said:

I strongly believe that McLaughing should get one for breaking NLR as he put in no effort at all to stay away from an ongoing RBA.

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You said it yourself dead cops cannot return within 1km of the location of their death for 15 minutes which is why we chose to drive around and as obvious we were not getting involved in whatever was left of that combat situation at the RBA as we were driving away from it at the time. I don't think I've personally ever seen anyone use that route to transport money from the international reserve. Usually, they just charge down the runway and go offroad straight to the laundering service. Your location would indicate to me you had come from the meth lab. As such it seems obvious to me that we were doing our best to stay out of the situation at the RBA. It is not either of our faults that you decided to shoot us and then you claim it is still part of the same fight even though we were a considerable distance away from it.

Cool said:

Is it pretty common that a “combat area” is about 2 click radius to because of snipers etc.

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I've never heard anyone talk about a definitive distance which is or is not a combat area. The nearest dead officer was a considerable distance away and there were no shots anywhere near the location we were in. As far as I'm concerned you simply wanted to protect your money at all costs. It was not an active gunfight and it was most certainly not an active gunfight where we were 2km away from the RBA.

I'm sure when ready staff will review this and hopefully regardless of the outcome you will see how your actions were not exactly in line with a roleplay community and you will at least try to confirm people are involved in a situation or provide some form of high-quality roleplay before gunning down two officers for wanting to give out a speeding ticket.

You said it yourself dead cops cannot return within 1km of the location of their death for 15 minutes which is why we chose to drive around and as obvious we were not getting involved in whatever was left of that combat situation at the RBA as we were driving away from it at the time. I don't think I've personally ever seen anyone use that route to transport money from the international reserve. Usually, they just charge down the runway and go offroad straight to the laundering service. Your location would indicate to me you had come from the meth lab. As such it seems obvious to me that we were doing our best to stay out of the situation at the RBA. It is not either of our faults that you decided to shoot us and then you claim it is still part of the same fight even though we were a considerable distance away from it.

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Your character cannot return within 1000m of the location of death or be involved in the same combat situation until the 15 minute NLR timer has expired

How are you doing your best at at leaving the situation by going to most used route and pulling over the same trucks that were at RBA? 

I've never heard anyone talk about a definitive distance which is or is not a combat area. The nearest dead officer was a considerable distance away and there were no shots anywhere near the location we were in. As far as I'm concerned you simply wanted to protect your money at all costs. It was not an active gunfight and it was most certainly not an active gunfight where we were 2km away from the RBA.

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Pretty common sense that the area around the RBA doing the RBA is at least 2 kms from the center because of snipers and counter snipers. Ill leave it to staff to decide. If this is allowed I cant wait to sit exactly 1 km out of where I died well knowing in the area of the combat situation