Report a Player - Ci Phoenix [7680] - Poor/Low Quality RP

Your In-game name

Martin Friss

Name of the player(s) you are reporting

Ci Phoenix [7680]

Date of the incident

23/10/18

Time of the incident (GMT)

1800

What best describes this incident ?

Poor/Low Quality RP

Which server did the incident take place on

Server 1

Please (in detail) describe the incident

So me and my friends just left the Laundry in redzone. Two of them died there so they respawned in Athira. I told them to get a backpack and a GPS so we will be able to do quick RBA. So I flew towards to Athira and landed directly behind Athira bank. Few officers approached me and one of them spoke to me (Ci Phoenix [7680]) He asked me to leave the area because I am breaking the aviation laws. I responded with : "I am waiting for a friend, I am a taxi" He told me once again to leave so I landed on a top of the office building because I was still waiting for one of my friends. The officers followed me and got on a top of the building. He asked me to leave once again but he received the same answer as before that I am waiting for a friend. After that he responded with "I am pulling you out" So I turned on my engines and I was trying to take off because It seems like he is really pissed off. Then he actually pulled me out and because the cockpit was in mid air, I fell down and died. After that medics came and healed me, I was told to stay on position and place my hands above my head so I wont go anywhere. So I complied. Then a police officer with a rank of an ACC came. I think that it was an ACC Gordon. Phoeinx asked me for keys so he can turn the engines off or move it somewhere else. So I gave him the keys and ACC Gordon went to the roof and moved the blackfish. Meanwhile Ci Phoenix has announced to me that I will be receiving a ticket worth of 80K and that my blackfish will be scrapped and my gun will be seized. I think that It was right after it that ACC Gordon landed the blackfish and managed to get to us. We were having a chat about Ci Phoenix pulling me out and he responded with : Every vehicle has a special lock mechanism? that can be unlocked by a cop at any time. He said something between those those lines. So I responded with that my blackfish was not equipped with that and the only thing that can get inside the cockpit meanwhile its locked is 7.62 bullet. Later on I managed to roleplay the ticket down to 50K, blackfish got scrapped and my weapon was gone. After that, Ci Phoenix gave me his badge number and told me that If I have any problems that I should contact him or file up a police complain. So I did. I called him to Liason and Ci Phoenix and ACC Gordon have showed up.
We were talking about the situation and we have ended up with Gordon saying that it was completely fine what Phoenix did in his opinion. Phoenix said that he is not going to compensate me and If I got something against it that I should go and file up a police complain. So after that I went to admin support channels to get some opinions about it. After that I got about 4 opinions from admins and 2 of them went into police Liaison with me again. They called Phoenix and they told him that it was not alright what he has done. They also said that I got full right to report him and I was asked If I want to do it. I responded with : "I am just trying to get my money back, I do not want to harm him in any way". After that Phoenix still refused to give me any compensation and told me to file up a police complain or a report. So here I am doing it now. I hope that I have mentioned everything. There might be some gaps here and there but that is because I just do not remember them. Mr. Phoenix might pin point them later on if they are important to him. Overall I am not satisfied with what he has done. Pulling someone out of a blackfish that is a military grade vehicle, without lock picking it. There is no real way to pull someone out in that short amount of time. Also there is no audio from my side in that video because my mic was muted at the recording software. But you can see me speaking in direct chat. If there is something that needs to be described more just mention me and I will try to give you more information about it.

Link to any evidence (Youtube/Screenshot)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTDxtYNe9Jc&feature=youtu.be
This report is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth!

Yes

You tried to resolve the situation with the player(s) before reporting

Yes

This is not a revenge report (Abuse will lead to forum/community bans)

Yes

I'll reply here as somebody who's been mentioned briefly in the report, I won't be dealing with this report as staff.

I was originally bought into this when Phoenix radioed into my patrol asking he would be able to pull somebody out of a blackfish, not seeing any reason that this would be an issue, I confirmed that there shouldn't be any issue with him doing so. A few minutes later I received another radio call asking for me to come and assist as there were claims of "FailRP" being called, I responded and told him I'd be with him shortly.

Upon arrival, the blackfish in question was parked on top of the Athira office roof and I saw the man in question (Martin) at the bottom of the building with his hands above his head. I approach and first of all ask if I could be given a set of keys so that I could turn off the engines of the blackfish so that I could hear what they both had to say. After being given a set of keys and moving the blackfish down from the rooftop (so that I could safely exit the vehicle without dying) I queried with Phoenix as to what the issue was.

I was told by Martin that he didn't believe that there would be any way he could've been pulled out of his blackfish due to its armour. In phoenix's defence, I argued that there may have been an emergency door release that would've allowed Phoenix to pull him out. He told me that this simply wasn't the case and that it shouldn't be possible. Not much more conversation followed and I ended up leaving the situation after Phoenix had told me that he'd be able to handle it from there.

In the Liason that followed, Martin argued the same point and he came to the conclusion that if Phoenix had lockpicked the vehicle prior to pulling him out he wouldn't have had an issue. I argued that perhaps at this point it's beginning to sound rather petty and that police would never normally lockpick any other vehicle in order to pull them out.

I can, however, see Martins perspective and if I would have known that the blackfish was placed over a ledge that would've caused the pilot to have fallen to his death in the first place, I certainly wouldn't have allowed it! I can also see where you are coming from in regards to it being an "armoured" vehicle but simply based on the fact that the police pull criminals out of hunters, iFrits & the like on the daily, I would consider this a non-issue.

If I've forgotten to mention anything, please do let me know. Happy to help as always.

//Gordon

[SIZE=11pt]Link to any evidence (Youtube/Screenshot)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Evidence - https://www.twitch.tv/videos/326519573[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Please (in detail) describe the incident[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]I am responding as I have been accused. After asking the pilot of the blackfish to take off and leave the area a few times while he on the ground, I contacted Gordon asking if I could pull the gentleman in question out of the blackfish. He agreed with the request but noted that I should be careful while doing so.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]The blackfish then left after telling me it was not a plane so he could not take off. I considered this an argument for not leaving the area. As he took off and went to land on the roof of a nearby building, I went to the roof and saw this as a lack of listening to my words and he had left the ground but decided to ignore the request to leave the area.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Once I climbed the ladder to pull the gentleman out of the pilots seat, I stood at the door where I thought I would get the access menu and where the gentleman would appear once he has been pulled out, so that I could discuss the issues with him face to face. He exclaimed that he was in a armoured locked vehicle and that I can’t do it. By this time I had already given the script command to pull him from the vehicle. He came out in the middle of the air and fell to his death. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]In regards to the door, it is my understanding that there is no door locks on any aircraft that is of a large size or military classed vehicle, only personal owned small aircraft would have them. That being said I’m not contesting that they could have been installed albeit unlikely.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]I would like to make it known I had completely no idea that he would be pulled from the cockpit windows. It was not my intention for him to get hurt in anyway. I would also like to say that I felt that he would come out from the door, as blackfish are not something I have come across on a regular basis.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]At no point was I “Pissed off” this is my normal demeanor and tone as I am sure that some people from the community can attest to. I will admit I felt he was taking the mickey by just parking it on the roof, but this would not have changed the outcome of the vehicle’s fate as he was breaking aviation laws by landing the blackfish inside city limits, which is a scrapable offence.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]As for his weapon and ticket, the weapon would have been removed and the ticket issued as is standard procedure for any illegal firearm and ticket leniency was given by the PPC that issued the ticket. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]After speaking with Martin in liasons with staff, an ultimatum was given to me that I can either compensate for the loss of the blackfish or be reported. As I choose to explain that I have scrapped it for reasons that are within the law, and that if he feels that I took place in any misconduct then he should submit a PCC for his compensation request.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]I feel that the blackfish in this situation was being used as a device to help give him a reason for not having to engage in communication easily and used it as a “safe bubble” so that he could not be spoken to by the police regarding his breaking of the aviation laws and he feels that this vehicle would give him an impenetrable bubble and to circumvent giving sufficient role play to me and should be able to escape from the situation scott free.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]I think I have explained everything that need to be talked about here from my point of view.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]/Phoenix[/SIZE]

Your report is currently being reviewed, Please be patient while the evidence is reviewed

Please keep checking this report regularly just in case the reviewing staff member has any questions

Thank you for your report and you doing your part to keep our community clean!

@Phoenix_025

I appreciate where you are coming from with your statement about "safety bubbles" and avoiding role-play, however was the blackfish in any way actually harming you?  The description of your action you swiftly took against @Martin Friss seems such that you felt that he was in some way imposing an unfair advantage. That you felt restricted you, as such you had to balance that and for lack of a better word at this time, win the situation. 

We'll forget for a moment that you actually threw Martin out of the window for this second part...

My second question/statement of questions is as follows.

Does it make sense for you as a Chief Inspector of the Police service to be boarding a large military grade aircraft, which is preparing for takeoff and yanking the pilot of such a vehicle from his chair (and throwing him out of the window). Was there an urgent requirement for you to launch yourself up from the back of the aircraft, through the cockpit doors and retrieve this "Villain!?". 
Or does it make more sense in line with your duties and expectations as a police officer, to protect and serve members of your community to consider contacting NPAS and having them deal with a potential aviation threat? 

Qrow said:

I appreciate where you are coming from with your statement about "safety bubbles" and avoiding role-play, however was the blackfish in any way actually harming you? 

Click to expand...

[SIZE=11pt]The blackfish was not harming me in any way, although it was hindering some role play that was taking place at Athira Bank location that was getting intense and even resulted in an officer going down, as can be seen on my video. We had just finished clearing the area when the this incident occurred.[/SIZE]
 

[SIZE=11pt]With the blackfish then landing in the area, I had reasonable suspicion that he could be involved, to which I approach and attempt to clear the potential threat from the area by asking him to take off and leave the area. During this he turns the engines on and off again multiple times and says that he is a taxi and that the vehicle he is in does not fly. He then flies and lands on top of an adjacent building.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]LAWS BROKEN[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Civil Aviation Act 1982[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Restriction Sites - No Fly Zones[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Towns & City Limits[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Settlements[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Police Headquarters[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]HM Treasury & HM Treasury Ships[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]The Prison[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Hospitals[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Misuse of Aviation - Helicopter Violations[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Violation of Restricted Sites[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Landing within City Limits[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Violation of Noise Control[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Environmental Protection Act 1990[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Noise Control - Helicopter[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Minimum Air Travel Altitude: 150 meters[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Crime and Policing Act 2014[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Failure to follow a direction to leave the area by a Police Constable[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]With the above laws broken, I asked for permission from a senior member of police if I have permission to pull the individual out from the vehicle. Stating “Kilo Romeo 1 this is Echo Intop, Can I get permission to pull someone out of their blackfish as they are landed in the middle of Athira”. Permission was granted.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]I move myself up the stairs and approach the blackfish once again stating “ Sir, I will be pulling you out of the vehicle”. The individual responded with “You can’t pull me out of an armoured locked vehicle you fooking idiot”.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]LAWS BROKEN[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Public Order Act 1986[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Swearing[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]refusing to cooperate with police.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Offences Against The Persons Act 1861[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Verbal Assault[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Crime and Policing Act 2014[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Failure to follow a direction to leave the area by a Police Constable[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]After the medic had revived him[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]LAWS BROKEN[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Firearms Act 1968[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Possession of an illegal firearm[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Having an Illegal attachment[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Having an Illegal Magazine[/SIZE]

Qrow said:

Does it make sense for you as a Chief Inspector of the Police service to be boarding a large military grade aircraft, which is preparing for takeoff and yanking the pilot of such a vehicle from his chair (and throwing him out of the window). Was there an urgent requirement for you to launch yourself up from the back of the aircraft, through the cockpit doors and retrieve this "Villain!?". 
Or does it make more sense in line with your duties and expectations as a police officer, to protect and serve members of your community to consider contacting NPAS and having them deal with a potential aviation threat?  

Click to expand...

[SIZE=11pt]I have not stated that he was a “villain” at any time.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]From this and a previous statement from Gordon, I am hoping you can see that as a member of the police, I am within my right as a police officer with in Altis Police Force, to pull the individual out of the blackfish, IFRIT, Hunter etc. This is a normal procedure that takes place on the island and not something that a NPAS Pilot would be contacted to do. As well as me given permission from an ACC in the police.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]As far as I am currently aware there is no server rules that prevent me from pulling someone from the vehicle if some statement has been made to them like “Sir I am breaking the window and pulling you from the car”. Also this is a feature that is implemented into the game for police officers to use for situations should they arise. I feel that my use of this feature was justified and I do not feel I abused it anyway.[/SIZE]

Qrow said:

The description of your action you swiftly took against @Martin Friss seems such that you felt that he was in some way imposing an unfair advantage. That you felt restricted you, as such you had to balance that and for lack of a better word at this time, win the situation. 

Click to expand...

Qrow said:

Or does it make more sense in line with your duties and expectations as a police officer, to protect and serve members of your community

Click to expand...

[SIZE=11pt]All of the above being said, ultimately my goal as a police officer on the island is to try and provide role play to the best of my ability given the situations that are presented to me. As a police officer, I enter all situations with the mindset that I may “lose” and I am ok with that, providing the role play that I receive is of an acceptable quality.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]The role play I received in this situation was low and insufficient in my eyes as a reason for landing the blackfish within city limits and with him later quoting “The only way I should be able to get at in the blackfish is via a 7.62 round through the window”, tells me that he was looking for me to step further over the line and start a gunfight in the local area, this is something that I was trying to actively avoid from happening as it would not have been conductive to the citizens of Altis and my duty as a police officer is to try and stop gunfights not cause more.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]So will all the laws listed previously being broken in one manner or another, having the permission from an ACC, I took it upon myself to remove the individual from the vehicle, in accordance to my police training.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Ultimately to answer the question of whether or not my policing was misconducted, it is not for me to say, that is something that should be submitted to the Police Complaints Commission, which was stated to Martin multiple times in the liaisons I had with him. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]With all this being said, I wonder whether all this information is relevant towards the report which I understood was about my low/poor quality role play. I feel that we may have passed the actual matter of the issue. Whether or not the role play I provided to pull him out of the vehicle was low or poor in anyway. To which I would say I had tried to start role play asking him to leave the area, I then explained to him that I would be pulling him out of the vehicle and continued the role play downstairs, explaining that I was within my rights as a police officer and have done nothing wrong and felt that as he had put in OOC “//That’s Fail RP”, I was the defending my role play based on interactions that he had not want to receive in the first place.[/SIZE]

I would point out that while a Police officer pulling someone out of a vehicle, and in particular military grade vehicles serves as a form of balance.

The factors I am more specifically referring to are that the vehicle was preparing for takeoff, and you threw the pilot off of the roof a three story building, unintentionally or not.

At at this time I would like to ask @Martin Friss if he has the footage post his demise, where he is revived and the interactions leading up to the blackfish being scrapped. 

Unfortunately I have stopped recording after me dying. Mr. Phoenix has a stream clip. I hope that he is going to be fine if I send it to you, so you can check it out. [PM]

@Qrow

Report Accepted

Alright, having watched the extended clip. I admit @Phoenix_025 I used the word villain for dramatic effect, I wasn't trying to imply that you said it. What you did say, is he fell out of the blackfish because he was a "slippery fish, covered in oil and salt".
I have no real staff thoughts on this comment. That said if I were to throw someone out of a window Phoenix, and they were a crippled mass at the bottom of a 3 story building.... I would imagine that they would be understandably upset.
I find it only slightly concerning from a roleplay perspective that other officers are laughing at Martin's plight, and then heard to be making a joke out of rebel suicide but it is a video game none the less. 
Fortunately @Martin Friss is "made of jelly" and with the support of the noble NHS,  survived this assault against his person. 

So my issue with this situation really comes in here in reference to this rule; 
(5.4) When you are revived/downed:
You may not actively enter or continue any combat situation for the next 15 minutes.

We've reached the point that Mr Friss is revived, and he is now very limited with what he can do within the rules of the game to influence the situation in a way that might save his black fish. If he attempts to contact his friends. @Martin Friss is in no position to prevent you from taking his communication if he attempts to contact his friends and indicating anything that could be construed as hostile would be tantamount to causing a combat situation.
Instead Martin tries to very simply role play out of the situation, all be it not credibly and you are having none of it. Which at this junction is fine. The roleplay as a police officer from this point again absolutely fine. Your scrap on the blackfish from this point, again lawful and fine. 

It's fortunate for a particular officer that knowing a blackfish has been scrapped doesn't discernibly add any advantage to whatever it was he was doing at that junction. 

I would also like to point out that there is no route from PCC to blackfish compensation by staff through compensation request as it is up to Police Command to decide punishment. 
 
Leading on from that, after careful watching of the longer stream, I feel that the interaction between you and Martin falls into the category below; 

(1.7) As a roleplay game every situation is different and not everything can be detailed within these rules and so it is important to remember this is an adult community and some things simply come down to common sense. Things like the following; do not swear at people (out of roleplay), troll people, or bully people otherwise you will simply be banned from our servers.

Basically what I'm saying is that while you are well within your rights as an officer to pull someone out of any vehicle, and you can do so at your own discretion. You should not be doing so in a way which would cause harm to the person inside. There is no common sense in that. Such as throwing them out of the window 3 stories up. Similarly I would have the same issue, and I'm sure you would agree that if it were possible to pull someone out of a moving ifrit that would be ridiculous. 
Being on the bench of a hummingbird and pulling out the passengers of the hummingbird hovering next to you 15m up in the air, also not okay. 

Restating, I know that it was not your intention to throw the man from the window, and had Martin come out of the door like I imagine you expected I would have no problem with the remainder of this interaction if it followed the same path. You indicate that you had no idea that he would be subjected to terminal velocity upon your actions and I am inclined to believe you. 

Unfortunately, you did throw @Martin Friss from the window, and I find the justifications throughout the interaction tenuous at best. The scope of the roleplay was undeniably limited and altered by this occurrence, Martin complied fully and co-operated to the fullest with a relatively positive attitude throughout the role play despite the interaction being 100% against him, which is amicable. 

While I feel that you have been unexpectedly caught out here @Phoenix_025 I will be handing out a warning for 1.7 to you. I hope that you can appreciate that this is due to the lack of consideration of what the effects of your actions might have been and altering a course of role play by effectively killing the opposing side.  

I would like to state here that this is not an indication to the police that there is an issue with you pulling people out of certain vehicles, but that it must be done in a safe, common sense way that doesn't endanger the other party. This should serve more as a point that the Altis Police Force exists to prevent all offenses against people and property, even those in contravention of aviation law. 

I would also like to add in a message to any smart arse that reads this and thinks that they can do what they like as long as their vehicle hangs over some kind of precipice. No. You can't, and acting as such would be tantamount to trolling, and will be dealt with in an expected fashion. 

Thank you for doing your part in keeping the community clean.

Your report has been approved and action has been taken against the reported player.

If you are out of pocket due to this case please now open a compensation request here, Do make sure to mention this report.