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Iggy Triton

The current state of the police...

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Iggy Triton

Im not here to bitch or bash the police in anyway . I just want honest answers to a few questions and concerns i have based on police conduct. Especially with specialised units.

In terms of the Armed Response unit. I do not understand why they are always looking for trouble? Surely if you are here to maintain peace and adhere to the police ethics (which maintain realistic but fun roleplay) you wouldn't be in a powerful drug cartel lands when nothing is going on. No operation. Nothing. ( thats NCAs job)

Secondly, if you see one LONE  hemmt doing a weed run. Why would you think its ok to risk officers lives to stop One truck and one player when you know that its going to upset the the controller of the lands and cause a gunfight risking officers and civilian lives (as it would upset you guys in the queensland) 

They're have been cases of armed response officer lottering around poseidon lands for no good reason. And when rightfully questioned act arrogantly and rude (this isnt the case with all AR members) 

There is very little room for roleplay when Poseidon interact with ar.

So basically here are my questions:

1. Do the police code and ethics not apply to the police armed response unit? 

2. Do armed response / specialist units have an exemption from preserving and valuing life? (Anyone and there dog would know to prioritize your colleagues life when surrounded by countless armed men for the sake of a truck of drugs.)

3. Why are the armed response team patrolling with full gear.  As it states in the name shouldnt they only respond to calls?

If there is a possibility of de-escalating a situation. Why don't armed response attempt it? Its VERY rare i see a scene de escalated done by them. In real life. It is very rare to see AFOs shooting only when necessary. Its normaly a short stand off and a skilled negotiator sorting it out. 

Its actually funny to see police setup up on hills and bushes BEFORE they even start to talk to you. Prepared for a gunfight before any roleplay is Initiated. This isnt RPUK KOTH

Any feedback from the police is appreciated. This is purely my opinion and from my experience only. 

The whole point of this post is so i can get the polices side of things. So if you facepalm. Tell me why! I want to know 🙂

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baileyjhuss7

Feel the same way Iggy. Was busted by AR whom stated they were on a patrol round Poseidon Weed Processor when like you said, thought they were only supposed to respond to calls. Again I could be wrong but like you say.

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ThomasW

What do you expect the police to do ?, bend over to ever rebel  like seriously 

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PeachMaster

Image result for this going to be good

 

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SALV

You know what, I couldn't agree with you anymore mate. You have the support of the plebs.

 

+1

PettyLameGadwall-size_restricted.gif

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Jamie
7 minutes ago, iggy said:

Im not here to bitch or bash the police in anyway . I just want honest answers to a few questions and concerns i have based on police conduct. Especially with specialised units.

Kind of seems like you are to be honest, but I'd happily try and answer some of your questions and concerns about Armed Response.

14 minutes ago, iggy said:

In terms of the Armed Response unit. I do not understand why they are always looking for trouble? Surely if you are here to maintain peace and adhere to the police ethics (which maintain realistic but fun roleplay) you wouldn't be in a powerful drug cartel lands when nothing is going on. No operation. Nothing. ( thats NCAs job)

Secondly, if you see one LONE  hemmt doing a weed run. Why would you think its ok to risk officers lives to stop One truck and one player when you know that its going to upset the the controller of the lands and cause a gunfight risking officers and civilian lives (as it would upset you guys in the queensland)

I don't believe we always go around looking for trouble at all. Our job is mainly to react to various different situations and being in the right place at the right time is part of being able to do that. However, we do still need to uphold the law and when rebel gangs and the Cartel themselves are making millions in cash off of illegal drug fields on a daily basis, AR much like the rest of the police will step in to help bring it to a stop. 

I personally don't see you as a "powerful" drug cartel, no offense. If we see people doing illegal activities be it possession of an illegal firearm or drug-related criminal activity, we will not just sit by and neglect it. We are here to enforce the law, and at this current time, your border doesn't stop us doing that in my eyes.

31 minutes ago, iggy said:

They're have been cases of armed response officer lottering around poseidon lands for no good reason. And when rightfully questioned act arrogantly and rude (this isnt the case with all AR members) 

There is very little room for roleplay when Poseidon interact with ar.

Just because you think there is no good reason doesn't necessarily mean that is true though. If we enter "Poseidon lands" we usually have an object or a reason to do so in most cases beforehand. We have our reasons, we don't have to disclose those reasons at the time, especially when we are met with hostility a lot of the time. I'd also like to say we do not necessarily consider them your lands, in my eyes, the whole island is classed as the Queen's Land and laws will be enforced wherever needed.

I wouldn't say there was very little room to roleplay with us either. We are playing this server for roleplay and I'm sure not every Poseidon member thinks the same of us as you do, as I have had many good and enjoyable encounters with people from the Cartel. If we are in your lands we will always be up to talk about whatever is going on, just we are less likely to pull over when we are met with hostility off the bat out of fear for our own lives.

45 minutes ago, iggy said:

1. Do the police code and ethics not apply to the police armed response unit? 

Of course, they do. But could you go into this a bit more, please?

48 minutes ago, iggy said:

2. Do armed response / specialist units have an exemption from preserving and valuing life? (Anyone and there dog would know to prioritize your colleagues life when surrounded by countless armed men for the sake of a truck of drugs.)

We do not have any exemption from this. If you are saying we don't value life then I'd say you're mistaken. I feel like you imagine the whole situation wrong because you can't see the side of the Armed Response in situations, maybe some are out of your vision. However, there would very rarely be AR members surrounded and outnumbered by "countless" armed men without nearby backup or other officers close by to assist in a quick manner. If you are willing to kill people for the sake of a drug truck then maybe rethink your decisions and let us carry on with our police business.

58 minutes ago, iggy said:

3. Why are the armes response team patrolling with full gear.  As it states in the name shouldnt they only respond to calls?

 Well, I'm not sure why this is questioned like it doesn't really affect you in any way and seems like you're picking at things. People have to pass tests to be able to use certain weapons or even be a certain rank in the unit to get a weapon (Mar-10). If we are not geared then we cannot respond quickly to calls like you are suggesting? We don't exactly equipt to the best of our abilities whilst on normal patrol. There are limits on weaponry during standard AR patrol and it's not like we fly around with a Mar-10 looking for trouble. I'd also like to say just because our name has Response in it doesn't mean we just have to respond to situations, we are there to help other officers in less hostile situations and also police locations that need policing, such as your drug locations. Let's be realistic if our only purpose was to respond to calls we would probably be sat inside a Police HQ for most of our patrol.

I hope I addressed most of your concerns if you need anything else let me know or pm me on Teamspeak and I'll be happy to respond.

SI Jamie

Chief of Armed Response

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Iggy Triton
3 minutes ago, Jamie said:

Kind of seems like you are to be honest, but I'd happily try and answer some of your questions and concerns about Armed Response.

I don't believe we always go around looking for trouble at all. Our job is mainly to react to various different situations and being in the right place at the right time is part of being able to do that. However, we do still need to uphold the law and when rebel gangs and the Cartel themselves are making millions in cash off of illegal drug fields on a daily basis, AR much like the rest of the police will step in to help bring it to a stop. 

I personally don't see you as a "powerful" drug cartel, no offense. If we see people doing illegal activities be it possession of an illegal firearm or drug-related criminal activity, we will not just sit by and neglect it. We are here to enforce the law, and at this current time, your border doesn't stop us doing that in my eyes.

Just because you think there is no good reason doesn't necessarily mean that is true though. If we enter "Poseidon lands" we usually have an object or a reason to do so in most cases beforehand. We have our reasons, we don't have to disclose those reasons at the time, especially when we are met with hostility a lot of the time. I'd also like to say we do not necessarily consider them your lands, in my eyes, the whole island is classed as the Queen's Land and laws will be enforced wherever needed.

I wouldn't say there was very little room to roleplay with us either. We are playing this server for roleplay and I'm sure not every Poseidon member thinks the same of us as you do, as I have had many good and enjoyable encounters with people from the Cartel. If we are in your lands we will always be up to talk about whatever is going on, just we are less likely to pull over when we are met with hostility off the bat out of fear for our own lives.

Of course, they do. But could you go into this a bit more, please?

We do not have any exemption from this. If you are saying we don't value life then I'd say you're mistaken. I feel like you imagine the whole situation wrong because you can't see the side of the Armed Response in situations, maybe some are out of your vision. However, there would very rarely be AR members surrounded and outnumbered by "countless" armed men without nearby backup or other officers close by to assist in a quick manner. If you are willing to kill people for the sake of a drug truck then maybe rethink your decisions and let us carry on with our police business.

 Well, I'm not sure why this is questioned like it doesn't really affect you in any way and seems like you're picking at things. People have to pass tests to be able to use certain weapons or even be a certain rank in the unit to get a weapon (Mar-10). If we are not geared then we cannot respond quickly to calls like you are suggesting? We don't exactly equipt to the best of our abilities whilst on normal patrol. There are limits on weaponry during standard AR patrol and it's not like we fly around with a Mar-10 looking for trouble. I'd also like to say just because our name has Response in it doesn't mean we just have to respond to situations, we are there to help other officers in less hostile situations and also police locations that need policing, such as your drug locations. Let's be realistic if our only purpose was to respond to calls we would probably be sat inside a Police HQ for most of our patrol.

I hope I addressed most of your concerns if you need anything else let me know or pm me on Teamspeak and I'll be happy to respond.

SI Jamie

Chief of Armed Response

Thank you for your response.

As stated. Above. My statement does not apply to all ar members as i have also had pleasant encounters with some too. There are a few repeat offenders (not going to name).  I cannot speak on behalf nor do i represent the whole cartel. As stated these i just my experiences. Some questions seemed irrelevant being i am genuinely interested and want to get to know how AR works. Apologies if this seemed like a bash, its just purely a way of better understanding your unit. Whilst i don't agree with some of your statements i respect the fact that you replied in a clear and concise manner. And you have cleared up some things with me thank you.

In regards to those few ar members who are very problematic. I will endeavour to file a PCC in line with the guidelines. 

 

/iggy

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INS Alfie Kipper
2 hours ago, iggy said:

 

Secondly, if you see one LONE  hemmt doing a weed run. Why would you think its ok to risk officers lives to stop One truck and one player when you know that its going to upset the the controller of the lands and cause a gunfight risking officers and civilian lives (as it would upset you guys in the queensland) 

That makes little to no sense, surely it is better value to lives stopping a smaller target, which has less power in the outcome of the situation, using the correct tactics we could snatch a HEMMTT and the driver in a couple of seconds, and be gone. With no threats at all. 

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Iggy Triton
3 minutes ago, SGT Alfie Kipper said:

That makes little to no sense, surely it is better value to lives stopping a smaller target, which has less power in the outcome of the situation, using the correct tactics we could snatch a HEMMTT and the driver in a couple of seconds, and be gone. With no threats at all. 

i meant in regards to being in poseidon lands and poseidon showing a large presence in the area 👍

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Robbie

This is my personal opinion!! This situation of police being in ur lands so much is because of the state of the economy on the server. People make drug runs in the poseidon lands more and more recently due to how easy and how good the return is compared to the risk of doing a run in kavala. This therefore makes the police try and stop drug runs therefore coming to poseidon lands more and more as that's where the crimes are being committed. With how low risk poseidon drug runs are, it should be a lower reward compared to kavala like the old times on the server. This would therefore stop police coming to your lands so much as police would be doing what they are doing anyway which is trying to prevent drug trade in altis

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Robbie

If people haven't got anything productive to say then please do not comment on the post with silly comments and trying to cause conflict. Warnings will be dished out to people who fail to do so, so please act mature... Shouldn't have to remind people about that! 

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Mr Maxim

Gonna add my opinion to this and a couple of suggestions.

I'd like to firstly humbly disagree with you Iggy, the problem is not with Armed Response specifically. You seem to have named and shamed them here to some degree and I personally disagree that they are the sole problem or even the main problem to be honest. While it's true there are multiple members of AR that react exactly the way you have described and I believe various members need a trip back to the academy for a refresher course on general policing, I have had situations where AR have negotiated their way out of a situation and being quite diplomatic myself I always try to offer them that route whether they end up taking into or not is their choice.

I believe the problem resides in the lack of strictness in these specialist units, like you have said, Armed response should be responding to situation with weapons like Mk1's and Mk18's, not patrolling with them. The average weapon you find with a Poseidon member is a Car-95 1, which while basically a laser beam with 100 rounds is no match for a skilled person with a 7.62mm or even a 6.5mm, even rebels have been using Mk1's etc less since the price increase. Realistically the police service should be responding/patrolling with a necessary loadout, in regards to protection and firepower, which should be based on things like a budget (this has been literally suggested), high power Marksmen rifles are expensive and so the police should not be equipping basically 1/4 of their active force with that level of weaponry, similarly with lower ranks, I have personally seen PC's rolling round with suppressed MXM's and MXSW's to which I ask... why? It's simply not needed and adds what I call big bollocks syndrome, "I've got a big gun so I'm gonna use it" is the mentality that I've been seeing from not just Armed Response but a majority of the Police service, high ranked officers need to crack down on it and actually think about whether a gunfight is worth the loss of life, when it can be easily resolved peacefully, even if it does mean a guy gets out with a truck boxer of weed.

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INS Aplexity
4 minutes ago, Mr Maxim said:

the problem resides in the lack of strictness in these specialist units, like you have said, Armed response should be responding to situation with weapons like Mk1's and Mk18's, not patrolling with them.

I’m sorry but what actually is the ‘problem’ ??

 

5 minutes ago, Mr Maxim said:

The average weapon you find with a Poseidon member is a Car-95 1, which while basically a laser beam with 100 rounds is no match for a skilled person with a 7.62mm or even a 6.5mm

This is not true at all most deaths come from this gun it’s more Op than other weapons flat out ..

 

8 minutes ago, Mr Maxim said:

Mk1's and Mk18's, not patrolling with them

Other than gold command there is probably like 4-5 people that can use these weapons, I don’t understand why you think changing this would make any difference at all?

 

10 minutes ago, Mr Maxim said:

PC's rolling round with suppressed MXM's and MXSW's to which I ask... why? It's simply not needed and adds what I call big bollocks syndrome

Because some PC’s can use those weapons? 

Why is it not needed, what will stripping the police armoury actually change? 

12 minutes ago, Mr Maxim said:

when it can be easily resolved peacefully, even if it does mean a guy gets out with a truck boxer of weed.

It seems that this whole post is basically saying that AR and police in general should be more lenient in stopping crime and shouldn’t be able to use certain weapons on patrol but I want to know why you think that? 

Other than some accusations and opinions presenting no evidence or facts at no point have you suggested why nerfing the police will change anything for the good?

 

 

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Charles Vane

Looking at this from the point of view of the best whitelisted faction.. The Plebs.. 

The whole island is ran by the police, poseidon come and put down 2 dodgy little checkpoints which are basically useless. This does not mean the police should patrol these lands. However, of course there would not be "normal" patrols going over that way because like you said iggy, there is an increased risk for the standard officer with standard equipment. 

This means, of course you will encounter AR and ofcourse you will encounter NCA and that other unit maybe? Specialist... protection.. agency.. the bodyguard squad.. 

You are directly against the police as a poseidon member, you have come into the police controled island and fucked shit up, taking land, putting down drug fields and all having illegal equipment. 

You must be a certain level of crazy to think there should be a certain level of peace between the 2 factions. If police have special units on, they should be in poseidon land.. they should be taking your guns and they should be stopping people doing illegal activity. 

You say its just 1 truck doing weed... 

ITS THE POLICE JOB TO ENFORCE THE LAW. 

Damn, someone could be doing it in a hatchback sport and they should stop them and crush there shit. 

For someone to also say AR shouldnt havr high powered weapons but should pull out when needed.. its crazy. 

For someone to say a MK1 is better than a car95-1 on this server, is crazy. The guns a beast even in Steves hands (love ya steve) 

TLDR; Crime is a crime, police are doing there job. Big bad poseidon members getting annoyed at police doing there job, get a grip. 

Just the opinion of the Whitelisted Plebs where we love everyone equally 😁

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Nalurah

Personal opinion and not that of staff/community team. I think the main confusion is that there seems to be a bit of a shift in the role of AR. As the name indicates this should be a responsive unit who doesn't go out on patrol to find issues but jumps in when normal patrols or NCA call for back up. That used to be the case atleast. NCA was the one who through undercover operation as well as just NCA patrols would deal with drug related issues on the island. Now it seems to be the other way around.
Out of curiousity, is there any particular reason why that has shifted?

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CSI Dan B
2 minutes ago, Nalurah said:

Personal opinion and not that of staff/community team. I think the main confusion is that there seems to be a bit of a shift in the role of AR. As the name indicates this should be a responsive unit who doesn't go out on patrol to find issues but jumps in when normal patrols or NCA call for back up. That used to be the case atleast. NCA was the one who through undercover operation as well as just NCA patrols would deal with drug related issues on the island. Now it seems to be the other way around.
Out of curiousity, is there any particular reason why that has shifted?

NCA still carry out our job and are tackling drugs in Poseidon lands, our role has not shifted recently.

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Charles Vane
7 minutes ago, Nalurah said:

Personal opinion and not that of staff/community team. I think the main confusion is that there seems to be a bit of a shift in the role of AR. As the name indicates this should be a responsive unit who doesn't go out on patrol to find issues but jumps in when normal patrols or NCA call for back up. That used to be the case atleast. NCA was the one who through undercover operation as well as just NCA patrols would deal with drug related issues on the island. Now it seems to be the other way around.
Out of curiousity, is there any particular reason why that has shifted?

Regardless what specialised unit they are in, they are all police and they should enforce the law in any situation right. 

AR would not just ignore someone doing a weed run because "its NCA's job"

Law is law

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Nalurah
3 minutes ago, Charles Vane said:

Regardless what specialised unit they are in, they are all police and they should enforce the law in any situation right. 

AR would not just ignore someone doing a weed run because "its NCA's job"

Law is law

Not saying they shouldn't. But you don't see military/heavily armed police units just driving around on patrol. That would be rather odd. They react to calls for backup from normal units.

I fully agree that the police should enforce the law and of course try and deal with the drug runs. I am merely wondering about the role and function of AR in this in terms of realism to the extent that we can expect on the server of course. 

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Charles Vane

Surely there role would be to go up against a whole cartel that have "stole" a whole bunch of land off them. There priority would always be responding. But i can guarantee if there is an armed response unit on duty, if they are not reaponding to something they would be out going head to head with the people that thr normal police cannot handle. Big rebel groups or poseidon. There one ones with the firepower and skill to work effectively against them.

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Iggy Triton
2 minutes ago, Charles Vane said:

Regardless what specialised unit they are in, they are all police and they should enforce the law in any situation right. 

AR would not just ignore someone doing a weed run because "its NCA's job"

Law is law

My standpoint also relates to the realistic roleplay. It is very understandable and reasonable that NCA should conduct undercover surveillance in the lands and by all means report to marked NCA and AR units when they spot something. My issue is with ar escalating a situation that simply isnt there in the first place. When we are peacefull. Just patrolling lands. No drugs being moved. No hostility. Why are theyre instances where poseidon are met with ignorance and arrogance when we are just tryna have a chat. (Isnt always the case. Most cops are lovely!) But from the 5 or so officers who seem like they want to start trouble with their mk1s when they are bored and have nothing to do. It is my understanding that the police code should be adhered to even if you are interacting with a criminal. 

For example Ive had nice long conversations with stavik before in our lands before he and his squad agree to leave. And others where they want to stop a hemmt (which is their right to do) in our lands. Its all based on situation to situation as no two are the same. But what some police officers lack is common sense and the ability to adapt to those dynamic situations. 

Obviously if poseidon or rebels are being hostile then cops can respond in a proper manor. But when its calm and theres nothing going on. It seems like officers are on a "fishing trip"  through poseidon lands when their is no illegal activity. 

Why would you have multiple marked units zooming through the lands when its calm? Surely youd rather have an undercover NCA patrol to prevent any instigation?

just my thoughts....

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Stealthee
6 hours ago, Nalurah said:

Not saying they shouldn't. But you don't see military/heavily armed police units just driving around on patrol. That would be rather odd. They react to calls for backup from normal units.

I fully agree that the police should enforce the law and of course try and deal with the drug runs. I am merely wondering about the role and function of AR in this in terms of realism to the extent that we can expect on the server of course. 

I hate to disagree, but the current state in the UK a news and association release. Armed response vehicles are not sat at a police station, they are patrolling,

"But throughout central London police Armed Response Vehicles (ARVs) are constantly patrolling, using BMW X5s with secured armouries in the back." 1

This is due to central London being a high crime area. Sounds like the east of Altis to me... Altis is a high crime island, no doubts. More heavily armed response patrols should be increased in my opinion to deal with the ever growing threats from east Altis and rebels alike.

 

Edit:

The point of realism, where in the world is there somewhere like Altis, with the murder, drug and crime rate... The police current response is in my opinion still not enough, the new thing where they tell people to put firearms in their bag, should in my opinion dealt with more seriously to stop people taking up such heavy arms in the first place.

 

Source

1 PFOA Admin. (2017). Terror threat: UK upgrades armed police response. Available: https://www.pfoa.co.uk/blog/terror-threat-uk-upgrades-armed-police-response. Last accessed 25/05/2019.

 

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Nalurah
3 minutes ago, Stealthee said:

I hate to disagree, but the current state in the UK a news and association release. Armed response vehicles are not sat at a police station, they are patrolling, "

But throughout central London police Armed Response Vehicles (ARVs) are constantly patrolling, using BMW X5s with secured armouries in the back."

This is due to central London being a high crime area. Sounds like the east of Altis to me... Altis is a high crime island, no doubts. More heavily armed response patrols should be increased in my opinion to deal with the ever growing threats from east Altis and rebels alike.

 

 

Police Firearms Officer Association page: 

https://www.pfoco.uk/blog/terror-threat-uk-upgrades-armed-police-response

Thank you for that point. If that is the case than it is indeed more normal than I thought. Shame it has gone that far in London though. 

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Longbow
1 hour ago, Stealthee said:

The point of realism, where in the world is there somewhere like Altis, with the murder, drug and crime rate

Nothing would ever be that bad in real life mainly as people don't RESPAWN  after being killed what is a shame. But what place comes to mind if you think about drug cartels, murders, tacos and shit like that. And i don't think londons AR are driving around in cartel areas to start shit but you never know

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Jason Wild
1 hour ago, Nalurah said:

Not saying they shouldn't. But you don't see military/heavily armed police units just driving around on patrol. That would be rather odd. They react to calls for backup from normal units.

I fully agree that the police should enforce the law and of course try and deal with the drug runs. I am merely wondering about the role and function of AR in this in terms of realism to the extent that we can expect on the server of course. 

If Altis was a regular Island, I would agree. However, almost everyone walks around with assault rifles, murder is something that happens on a hourly basis. Police officers are being taken left and right. And drugs run the economy. It is more than normal that Armed Response Units patrol, and that regular officers walk around with Assault rifles instead of pistols, to counter all of this. It would be unrealistic if they would walk around with Rooks to counter all of this.

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Iggy Triton

You were saying...... the irony

1P8m9G.jpg

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