Replace VDM with RVDM / Clarify NLR

Detailed Rule Suggestion:

NLR states the following:

(5.1) A new life starts, when:
Your character has been involved in an accident.

AND

(5.2) A new life does not start when:
Your character has been the victim of a clearcut case of VDM

In my view these two rules contradict eachother, as you can be a victim of an accidental VDM, meaning both 5.1 and 5.2 apply to you.

VDM is defined as:

Vehicle Deathmatch (also known as VDM) - Using any vehicle as a weapon (e.g running people over, causing explosions including while sling loading, ramming, etc).

The rule makes no mention of the act being intentional for it to constitute VDM, just that the act of using a vehicle as a weapon (which can be done unintentionally) is VDM.

So, if someone unintentionally rams into you and kills you, you are technichally not a victim of VDM, you are involved in an accident, meaning the NLR applies. I find this to be overly confusing as a result of ambiguity in the 5.1 and 2.1 rules.

Outline how your rule will improve the server/community:

The addition of Random Vehicle Deathmatch would more clearly show VDM as a malicious act, together with clarification of 5.1/5.2 would more clearly show players the intent of the rules.

Example of new rules per suggestion:

(2.1) Random Vehicle Deathmatch (also known as RVDM) - Intentionally using any vehicle as a weapon (e.g running people over, causing explosions including while sling loading, ramming, etc).

(5.1) A new life starts, when:
Your character has been involved in a road traffic accident (Unintentional VDM)

(5.2) A new life does not start when:
Your character has been the victim of a clearcut case of RVDM

I feel these rules will allow players to ascertain the correct course of action in the case they are VDMed (as per the current definition of VDM) by accident, as reviewed and changed rules will help clear up any possible confusion regarding how the rules wish for a player to act in a certain situation.

Think about any bad points your rule suggestion might have:

N/A

What punishment if any should breach of this rule have:

Same punishment as before.

you been banned now u got all these rules suggestions lmao

Boab said:

you been banned now u got all these rules suggestions lmao

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I was banned because I misunderstood the rules, I feel they could be more clear, hence the suggestion.

Define accidental VDM? 

so you want a 16 page rules list that describes how to roleplay ????

This is my opinion and my opinion only 

Tadeusz said:

Define accidental VDM

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Unintentionally using any vehicle as a weapon (e.g running people over, causing explosions including while sling loading, ramming, etc).

Daanv said:

so you want a 16 page rules list that describes how to roleplay ????

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This isn't relevant to roleplay rules.
This is about ambiguity within the VDM rule and NLR rule.

In my opinion accidental VDM is a very rare occurrence , if your driving down a road and a random guy pulls out in front of you without seeing you causing you both to die, well you haven't been the victim of VDM you have just been involved in a car accident which is a thing that happens in real life. 

charlito said:

Unintentionally using any vehicle as a weapon (e.g running people over, causing explosions including while sling loading, ramming, etc).

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Uh, yeah that sounds like a bad idea. Anyone could say or argue that they unintentionally rammed another vehicle. "my cat ran over the keyboard" 

Joe Malley said:

well you haven't been the victim of VDM you have just been involved in a car accident which is a thing that happens in real life

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Thing is by the definition of VDM, the car accident still is VDM, as the car was used as a weapon.

Tadeusz said:

Uh, yeah that sounds like a bad idea. Anyone could say or argue that they unintentionally rammed another vehicle. "my cat ran over the keyboard" 

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The suggestion is to change VDM To RVDM, not to have an accidental VDM rule.

charlito said:

The suggestion is to change VDM To RVDM, not to have an accidental VDM rule.

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Sorry it just sounds to me like it will add a grey area. If it looks like VDM and it smells like VDM, it is. Unlike Deathmatch which is allowed given high quality roleplay. Using a vehicle isn't allowed at all. Period. 

Daanv said:

so you want a 16 page rules list that describes how to roleplay ????

This is my opinion and my opinion only 

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there is already 16 pages of rules...

oh boy oh boy , nice one @Boab exactly what i was thinking xD, -1 on suggestion common sence should be exercised here

(2.1) Vehicle Deathmatch (also known as VDM) - Using any vehicle as a weapon

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[SIZE=medium](5.1) A new life starts, when: [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Your character has been killed by a cop. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Your character has died in a RP situation. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Your character has been involved in an accident. [/SIZE]

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"Accidental VDM" as you call it, would be a traffic accident, Using something as a weapon would require intent (excluding very careless driving begging for desync explosions, common sense applies).

The situation you bring up is already amply catered for by the current rules both in wording and intent imo. I think the proposed changes would simply add new loopholes/grey areas and don't even "fix" the example situation as one could still argue they did/didn't ram intentionally etc.

There has been no issue for the past 5 years. why as soon as your banned its unclear.

-1

I think the confusion is that people started misusing the word VDM when it was just a (in roleplay) accident. Having an accident is not classed as VDM. Don't think we need a rule change to clarify this. If you were very picky you could maybe add the word "intentional" somwhere in the description of VDM. But it shouldn't be necessary.

Recon Nine said:

I think the confusion is that people started misusing the word VDM when it was just a (in roleplay) accident. Having an accident is not classed as VDM. Don't think we need a rule change to clarify this. If you were very picky you could maybe add the word "intentional" somwhere in the description of VDM. But it shouldn't be necessary.

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That's true, I recently stopped calling accidents VDM due to what happened to @charlito

It does make sense because dying to a vehicle even if it wasn't intentional. But the real meaning of VDM is more malicious than a simple love tap. 

Just confuses a lot of people because everyone screams VDM VDM for the littlest things, even if you don't lose gear or a vehicle. 

Also am only RPing for a year now. Sure its a long time but understanding the meaning of some of these things definitely changes depending on the person/ Admin so opinions come into play when they really shouldn't ( Not pointing fingers, it just happens because we are human ) 

Just needs to be streamlined more so all the new members of the community can grasp the rules the best they can. I also understand that the staff team have been trying to do this the whole time and its not an easy thing due to loop holes and the small amount of people abusing them.

Boab said:

you been banned now u got all these rules suggestions lmao

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So what if he's banned? You don't really know if something is an issue until it really happens and someone bring it up. In this guy's case he decided to bring it up because he misunderstood the rule which led to consequences he didn't forsee. It's like life really, businesses or government they put up new policies thinking it's going to work but have to change it due to unforseen effects. Things needs to happen for it to be changed and in this case, he got banned because he misunderstood a rule and so he's doing the right thing, he brought up a suggestion to word the rule out better. I don't see how you and Nuclear is helping by adding comments like this. This is not just aimed at you but for all those who digs at him for bringing it up when he got banned.

In regards to your suggestion @charlito, you need to exercise common sense really, does it feel like VDM, might be best to speak with the person who VDMed you perhaps ask for a video from their prespective. I have seen the video you uploaded, although it looked like VDM, I really dont think it was. It was more of dsync really, if I remember right in your video I don't think his car even touched yours. You could've talked to him about it and perhaps consult an admin showing him the video and explaining your side of the view. One thing to consider, accidents do happen. I have been rammed by Police all the time (which caused by car to explode) and ironically during gunfights too but I don't call them out as VDM because I know that people don't tend to purposely ram their SUVs into you and if I am driving around dangerously (speeding and sweving around) I am bound to crash or get rammed into.

I believe the rule is fine the way it is now, you just need to ask certain questions. 

Clearcut VDM as many others in this thread have pointed out is the kind of thing you see daily in Kavala, someone who is generally new drives a car full speed into you, resulting in your death and explosion, other cases of VDM such as two cars colliding in a chase or someone pulls out on you.

Clearcut:



Plane clearly sees ambulance as it attempts to land, plenty of chance to pull up.

Accidental:



Through the amount of dust there is no way those vehicles would have been able to see each other.

The rule is specific in using the word clearcut, as such no change will be made at this time.