Report a player - 613 , 609 - GTA RP

Report a player 

Your In-game Name: Ceko Koja

Name and/or ID of the player(s) you are reporting: 613 , 609

Which server did the incident take place on: GTA RP

Date of the incident: 06/12/22

Time of the incident (GMT) 24hr Format: 2300

What best describes this incident ?: NVL - NLR

Please (in detail) describe the incident: I will be keeping this report informative along with brief without adding speculation or assumption.
We had an altercation with some members of the Vagos having incapacitated two Vagos members (shown in the video provided, Terry & Albo)

https://youtu.be/QxtMbiM3NGM
https://medal.tv/games/gta-v/clips/ogXK71eh-AglY/d1337Dv0S3dE?invite=cr-MSxNNFEsMjA0NzY2MTIs

I along with 4 other gang members (5 total) proceeded to take both Terry and Albo to the Sandy Shores dirty doctor in an attempt to progress the ongoing conflict we have with the Vagos by holding their members hostage having long standing relationship ties with the Vagos we truly believed that we would be given the opportunity to provide these two captive members with RP that could progress their own storylines along with our own.

[0:32] https://youtu.be/QxtMbiM3NGM?t=32

Now once both parties Terry and Albo had been helped to their feet with medical assistance weapons were drawn and pointed Terry as can be seen my own along with his own footage decides to not listen to verbal commands to drop his weapons and place his hands above his head and instead in his injured state (on the brink of incapacitation as shown in his POV) drew his firearm and began firing. As this was going on Albo who had already listened to orders at gunpoint and dropped his firearm understanding that he was not only outnumbered but at a clear disadvantage given his medical condition.

[1:12] https://youtu.be/QxtMbiM3NGM?t=72
(Albo seen punching someone with a firearm disregarding basic common sense)

https://i.gyazo.com/7e1f71ea1d366186d76f26d1c9cdcbfa.png (Evidence A)
https://i.gyazo.com/46d32ff3a192874d437b04f076758e04.png (Evidence B)

However once chaos ensued, he began throwing punches dodging in and around gunshots.

[0:43] https://youtu.be/QxtMbiM3NGM?t=43

(Disregarding CLEAR instructions by putting his hands down and moving around when told not to, then proceeded to take out and discharge his firearm)

I believe they are both in violation of the NLR rule along with the NVL rule as they are not only outnumbered with guns pointed but having also sustained the injuries they are were afflicted with does not make any sense why guns would be drawn in retaliation to a request for a surrender, after they had already been incapacitated not a few minutes prior through gunfire, in order to continue the RP outside of a combat situation and actually have a conversation.

In short, the reason behind the delay of this report is because DMs were exchanged with Bobby Wink/Terry where declarations of wrongdoings were made and promises of compensation were also stated only to be retracted in an attempt to delay the report being posted. I would say this is in order to invalidate the report due to a "time passed" condition, but I have said I would not make assumptions in this report

https://i.gyazo.com/48cde88dd7be74e9727f3184eda79e8b.png (Evidence C)

Would also like to mention that Terry has already admitted to guilt and realised his wrongdoing after the situation had occurred as shown in the image/medal clip provided whereby it states "NVL from me" on the title, not sure if this implies that he tried to make light of a rule violation or not but the evidence is there for taking for staffs ease in understanding the matter. We obviously shouldn’t need to face the consequences of losing our items based on the actions of the said rulebreakers.
We however appreciate the discussion we had and came up with a resolution as stated prior so its fair for everyone and unfortunately it seems as though that has been taken for granted and was used in a scummy tactic in order to try and "delay" the report cooldown structure where the evidence would be null/void hence why we didn't put this report up prior.

https://medal.tv/games/gta-v/clips/ogXK71eh-AglY/d1337Dv0S3dE?invite=cr-MSxNNFEsMjA0NzY2MTIs (Terrys POV + NVL)

https://i.gyazo.com/7e1f71ea1d366186d76f26d1c9cdcbfa.png (Evidence A)
https://i.gyazo.com/46d32ff3a192874d437b04f076758e04.png (Evidence B)
https://i.gyazo.com/48cde88dd7be74e9727f3184eda79e8b.png (Evidence C)

https://youtu.be/QxtMbiM3NGM - (Our POV)

Link to any evidence (Youtube/Screenshot):



https://youtu.be/QxtMbiM3NGM



This report is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth!: Yes

You tried to resolve the situation with the player(s) before reporting: Yes

This is not a revenge report (Abuse will lead to forum/community bans): Yes

"In short, the reason behind the delay of this report is because DMs were exchanged with Bobby Wink/Terry where declarations of wrongdoings were made and promises of compensation were also stated only to be retracted in an attempt to delay the report being posted. I would say this is in order to invalidate the report due to a "time passed" condition, but I have said I would not make assumptions in this report"

I will reply to address this point as it directly involves me and will leave the rest of the report to the right people.

The demands you were making in order for this report to not go up were to be honest, unreasonable and it was decided as a gang that we would not be going through with it. We did seek staff opinion on weather guns can be comped and we were told that we should not do it and we could receive a ban. It could fall under a number of rule breaks;

(G1.6) Being In Character - What happens in Roleplay needs to stay within Roleplay
(G2.3) Roleplay Everything - You must remain in character at all times
(G3.1) OOC Information - Using out of character information to influence the course of roleplay is considered metagaming and punishable by a ban.

It would make no sense for 2 warring factions to have a peaceful trade off of weapons because of an OOC issue.

The items you were requesting as comp are shown below in a DM from a GH member;
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/961580763852202074/986346891493117962/unknown.png

You said these were the guns you would have had, had the situation gone your way. In the clip you have provided you can see that Vagos arrive towards the end of the clip. There is no way you can guarantee the outcome of that situation and claim you would have all walked away OK. Here is my POV from when I pulled up. Bearing in mind we knew you were there before we drove up.
https://medal.tv/games/gta-v/clips/ogXKyHCkcBUiJ/d1337rB3gyeB?invite=cr-MSxMTG8sMjI2OTc1Mjcs

We also thought it was even more unreasonable that you were requesting that this report from a Vagos member;
https://www.roleplay.co.uk/topic/139884-report-a-player-583622790-gta-rp/
Be taken down in order for you to not report Terry.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/961580763852202074/986346938154778664/IMG_5656.png

Reports are not a tool to bargain with for other reports to be taken down and this clearly shows that this report has been put up as a revenge report because of the refusal for the other report to be taken down. This would also fall under (C1.14) Threats to report.

Hopefully that clears up some of the facts as to why I believe this report is now up on the forums.
 

"Disregarding CLEAR instructions by putting his hands down and moving around when told not to"

I dont think this shows me breaking an NVL rule. At first I didn't listen but I was trying to stall as it was obvious that Vagos would be checking all the Doctors and could arrive at any time, like we do every time someone is taken. I was trying to frustrate you and waste time but I wasn't going to do this forever.

"I believe they are both in violation of the NLR rule"

(G4.1) A new life starts, after you respawn, when:
Your character has had to respawn in any roleplay situation except as per (G4.2).

The NLR rule doesn't apply to anything within this report.

"along with the NVL rule as they are not only outnumbered with guns pointed"

In the clips that you have provided I am surrounded by 3 people. 1 person trying to search me, one person watching and 1 person with a gun. The others are occupied with Albo and not paying any attention to me, you can disregard them in this situation as I am faced with 3 people and 1 gun.
At this point it is a 1v1 and I knew that my life was in danger. I saw this as an opportunity to take out the lone person with a gun in order to try and save my life.

"having also sustained the injuries they are were afflicted with"
I can accept that I might have been in violation of;
(G4.5) When you have been revived:
Due to your injuries, you must not enter any combat situation until at least 15 minutes have passed, unless an aggressor forces you into combat, in which case you must still Roleplay your injuries.

I felt that the threat to my life and the opportunity to escape was enough to feel that there was no way out other than to fight to survive. You guys were the agressors in the situation with guns pointed and I had no other choice.

"we truly believed that we would be given the opportunity to provide these two captive members with RP that could progress their own storylines along with our own."

I find this hard to believe as I haven't seen any Roleplay from you guys so far. There wasn't even any medical RP involved in this situation and it was a clear Rob/Dump situation that was going to go down.

As shown at the end of the clips Vagos arrived to finish off the remaining Greyhounds proving that my initiative and choice to fight for survival was correct and I was successfully rescued and received proper medical treatment in Hospital.
Had you handled the situation correctly and had multiple guns at me I would never have pulled out my weapon to try and fight for survival. 

On a final note I called the clip NVL from me so I knew which clip to provide when going through Medal. If I genuinely thought I'd broken a rule I wouldn't have done it.

“We also thought it was even more unreasonable that you were requesting that this report from a Vagos member.”

https://www.roleplay.co.uk/topic/139884-report-a-player-583622790-gta-rp/

“Be taken down in order for you to not report Terry.”

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/961580763852202074/986346938154778664/IMG_5656.png

"Reports are not a tool to bargain with for other reports to be taken down and this clearly shows that this report has been put up as a revenge report because of the refusal for the other report to be taken down. This would also fall under (C1.14) Threats to report."

https://i.gyazo.com/8eb52d515ff43ea7e20d5bb875c36454.png
https://i.gyazo.com/28fc9254b09d5bcb0f487d00e2cbba25.png
https://i.gyazo.com/78b1754378f6cb2d7b0bdf913b18ec5f.png
https://i.gyazo.com/23459465e4063e00a514b25663a42f3f.png
https://i.gyazo.com/ea4b4b8c2c27834a99657a55e644e25b.png
https://i.gyazo.com/9c40fbe1fe8ae7506cbb938b9492e7f8.png
https://i.gyazo.com/2d09864538025b5482097e6b0e10e0e0.png
https://i.gyazo.com/d893693d2cfaea010ddbd6d6ac15a697.png
https://i.gyazo.com/85dacd89236db53ed5a6694376531eac.png

Please see attached screenshots that will show Bobby himself offering to take reports down first this is not something we ever cared for also see here where Terry once again in a last-ditch attempt offered to remove a report. Removing reports has never been something we have ever pursed/asked or cared for. I hope staff can see this from the disgusting attempt at a cover up from a community leader. It is nothing shy of poor to lie on the forums and delete messages to hide how things actually transpired, that is ridiculous, and I hope the whole community can now see the sort of community leader he is. I will not be continuing this conversation with you Bobby/JB whomever.

Terry the NLR violation is G4.5 not G4.1 you did not respawn you were revived by the Dirty Doctor. 
Regarding G2.4 Violation with the gun pointed, the numbers disadvantage you have just pointed out yourself and a clear medical condition from your injuries (a punch could incapacitate you, judging by your health from your now deleted clip) I would have expected this to constitute an "obvious disadvantage" not every situation needs to end in a win, but that is my perspective I will wait for staff opinion on whether or not these conditions constitute a clear and obvious disadvantage. 

Again, personal opinion here I will not speak to any facts there was no desire for combat at the point we were at I guess this will be down to the staff depiction of combat but from my own perspective simply put we requested a surrender as you were clearly too injured to fight and instead do a combat roll and down everyone.
To say you had no other choice, I mean you could just put your hands up, right? The same thing you would request from anyone else if you were in the same situation. Nothing stopped you from delaying and remaining in line with your character's health condition such as sitting down, asking for food and water explaining you are about to pass out without a bandage, attempting to use a bandage and failing.

You also stated you were saved by Vagos members 

"As shown at the end of the clips Vagos arrived to finish off the remaining Greyhounds proving that my initiative and choice to fight for survival was correct and I was successfully rescued and received proper medical treatment in Hospital."

Paul Devine can confirm this is not the case, if this report is going to be filled to the brim with lies, I will simply not reply and instead leave it to staff members I hope a decision can be made off the evidence provided.

"I find this hard to believe as I haven't seen any Roleplay from you guys so far."

I thought about sending a video of the events we get up to with our captives but instead I will leave you with this the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence 
new people are in the server frequently if you have not seen RP from them personally this should not give you the green light treat them poorly and violate rules. 
 

"Regarding G2.4 Violation with the gun pointed, the numbers disadvantage"
The number of people at the scene does not represent a clear disadvantage. You could have had 15 people there but if only 1 has a gun and only 1 is paying attention it is a 1v1 situation with that person which is exactly what has happened here. It has happened time and time again when people have been reported for NVL with only 1 gun pointed at them and it has been denied. It's not a clear and obvious disadvantage. It is the responsibility of the aggressors to ensure you display a clear and obvious disadvantage and 1 person with a gun does not represent that. 

"As shown at the end of the clips Vagos arrived to finish off the remaining Greyhounds proving that my initiative and choice to fight for survival was correct and I was successfully rescued and received proper medical treatment in Hospital.
Paul Devine can confirm this is not the case, if this report is going to be filled to the brim with lies, I will simply not reply and instead leave it to staff members I hope a decision can be made off the evidence provided."

You can see Bobby arrive in the clip you have provided as evidence and this is backed up by the clip Bobby posted of himself killing a GH. Amos can also be heard in the clip being shot out of his Jester so yes, Vagos did turn up and it is all within the 2 minute clip you have provided. Which again is reason enough to state that your comp requests are not valid as you cannot ensure you would have even survived the situation at all.

"I find this hard to believe as I haven't seen any Roleplay from you guys so far."
This was in reference to the NVL, Combat logging and RDM clips which we have enough of to make a montage with however chose not to report in the interest of keeping things fun.

With regards to the image of me stating Lily will take her report down, that is because it had been communicated with us that that was one of the conditions you requested in order to not report me and she said she would be willing for my sake. That is not me offering it on her behalf.

I have stated the conditions in which I perceived to provide a clear and obvious disadvantage being the personnel, the firearms as well as your own health condition do not forget. No reason to go back and forth on this aspect as it is clear you are not seeing your health condition as being relevant I guess. We will have to see staff's take on this element.

I won't go into depth regarding validation of compensation because this ultimately is not a compensation request it is a player report. But to touch on it briefly by incapacitating numerous people through what we perceived to be a rule violation it significantly shifted the outcome of Vagos backup turning up, the timing of it all does ring alarm bells with your own previous admissions of streaming content for other Vagos members to watch and potentially act on.

https://i.gyazo.com/150be1ecfba7bc7a8d5f5a2527f70cd9.png

But we won't delve into that at this time as speculation is being left out of this report. Nevertheless the paragraph you are quoting was stating that you respawn at the scene and this can be confirmed by Paul Devine the only surviving players of this altercation which stemmed from your NVL was Albo and Dex to my best recollection. 
I'm sure if needed Paul Devine would be happy to confirm this fact if logs are not available.

Benz has not deleted a single message as he has absolutely nothing to hide he is more than happy screensharing his entire log of messages with Bobby Wink to any staff member that wishes to see it. Report taking down was never and would never be our idea of a resolution, this was instead offered to us I guess in an attempt to stall. The only thing we would have needed/accepted is a compensation of what was lost and acknowledgement of wrongdoing along with an apology, something that in the initial voice conversation was offered by Vagos. When you pushed for report for report, just before this report was posted as seen in the screenshots we could see item compensation, the only thing wanted, was not on the cards and an resolution could not be made, it is for that reason we are here today. Really think about it here Terry you have just admitted to offering Lily's report if we wanted it/it could ever be sufficient why would we not have just taken it instead of showcasing all screenshots to the whole community and going through the report process to get no reports taken down and only items through a potential compensation request.

I have no reason to believe you would tell the truth now at this point considering you lied about being taken to Sandy Hospital, a lie I believe has absolutely no value to you. Furthermore you have gone on to double down on this lie that you were taken to the hospital when evidence could show otherwise. But nevertheless if for whatever reason it was conveyed to you that we requested it instead of it being offered as a condition I can inform you now you were lied to. The only thing we had actually asked for was in addition to guns lost also yours and Albo's firearms, once this was denied after initially being accepted, something we all at one point thought was reasonable we knew any further attempts to reconcile was in order to stall and invalidate any reports made it is for that reason we simply decided to agree to any of your turns and pushed, baring in mind pushed on your own offered conditions, to get an admission from any of you that we would never be compensated and you were all just trying to stall. Regardless it is down to this dishonest nature I would feel much happier if this could now be left to staff decision if any further evidence of information is needed by staff members I am more than happy to supply it.

My police character is Paul Devine, since my Paul Devine character has been mention a few times, I will post my events from my POV only

https://medal.tv/games/gta-v/clips/oAy2RRRxnpdOZ/d1337WhVfybI?invite=cr-MSxnYnQsMTUzMDgzNjk (clip showing me attending the scene)

I was on duty as AM-2, we had gunshots dispatches come through at the dodgy doctor, I attended the scene within 1min and 45 seconds from the first gunshot dispatch and I fully secured the area with help from my AM partner and backup from firearms, I noticed 6ish I believed members from Vagos down. One of them was terry picture posted below



He was not taken away from the area and receive medical treatment in Hospital but he was searched by a firearms officer and his firearms taken and then respawned at the scene confirmed by a firearms officer after.



Confirming ID and Person, The only surviving member of Vagos was Albo to my knowledge.



 

"I have stated the conditions in which I perceived to provide a clear and obvious disadvantage being the personnel, the firearms as well as your own health condition do not forget. No reason to go back and forth on this aspect as it is clear you are not seeing your health condition as being relevant I guess. We will have to see staff's take on this element."

This is the only relevant thing to this report that you have typed in your reply and I've replied enough as to why the conditions you have laid out are not NVL. 
My injuries do not fall under the NVL rule and would fall under G4.5 which is part of the NLR not NVL which I admitted I could have potentially broken.
People in an area does not make anything a disadvantage when they have no visible firearm and only have 1 firearm pointed at me is also not a clear and obvious disadvantage.

" Vagos backup turning up, the timing of it all does ring alarm bells"
No it doesn't as dodgy doctors are checked every time someone is taken and anyone in any gang will say the same thing. Your own gang will know that seeing as they were in Vagos previously and we have always done it.

It's my mistake thinking I survived this situation I was thinking about something that happened the day after at the same doctor.
Either way nothing you have just stated Michael is relevant to this report so your reply is not required and holds no relevance to the report of NVL.

Thank you for your report.

First thing to get out of the way is the "revenge report" and "time restriction". Considering the circumstances of attempting to resolve the situation, I will allow the report to continue. Regarding the "revenge report". Although it does sound a little iffy for a report to not go up, a report must be taken down, the foundation for it seems reasonable. An attempt for all situations to be resolved, no reports go through and a lesson learned. I don't believe this is a revenge report but a failing of negotiations that has come full circle. Only option left was for a report to go through.

Regarding the concerns of OOC rule breaks with the handing over of weapons and people, you are correct these would be considered rule breaks, however with staff intervention there is the possibility for it to be sorted via the "hand of god" and instructions on how to proceed. (handing over people more than likely would never occur). As this never occurred, the only option for compensation is a report a player with a corresponding compensation request.

Regarding the NVL and NLR accusations:

(G4.5) When you have been revived:

• You have been given medical treatment and must continue to roleplay your injuries with the medical treatment in mind.
  

This statement explains itself. You must be conscious of your injuries. You're not superman and cant just pop up like nothing happened and gung-ho your way out of a situation.

(G2.4) Value of Life - At all times you are to value your life, if you are clearly outnumbered or at an obvious disadvantage you should comply with demands.

The argument of analysing the situation to the point you believed was a 1v1 is not fair. You are confined within the games mechanics. You cant point a gun and use the caps lock menu. You cant point a gun and search someone at the same time. You cant have your hands up (unless you use the emote) and check your inventory and currently you cant rob incapacitated players who are helpless. This leads to the current situation of taking people to the dodge doctor to get their stuff.  You have to play fair. Neither of you did.

You're expected to value your life within reason. Here you both did no such thing. It resulted in both of you being incapacitated for a second time. If you truly were trying to stall for time you would have dragged out the medic roleplay process as much as you could and actually SPOKE to the people involved. You may have been lucky that someone did come to save you in the end but it does not give you the right to give poor roleplay to those around you. In this situation you were majorly disadvantaged. Hurt, alone, out manned and out gunned. No reason for you to believe you were getting out of that situation in the attempt that you made. Mindsets need changing. Losing as hard as it is to accept at the time, is something that needs to occur and you need to be understanding and fair about it.

(C1.7) Common Sense - As a Roleplay game, every situation is different and not everything can be detailed within these rules and so it is important to remember this is an adult community and some things simply come down to common sense.

It is important to understand that its not the dodgy doctor that is preforming the resuscitation on these players, its YOU. The doctor is simply giving you the tools to do so. As such you are expected to act as if you are giving medical care. Simply saying "Everyone act as a nurse" is poor. Standards of roleplay need improving from both parties, more so one than the other. This type of interaction needs its roleplay standard improving. People seen giving the same level of roleplay to people they are attempting to revive will have repercussions, for now, take this as a warning and learn from it. 

Action taken Albo Reli (G2.4) (G4.5)

Action taken Terry Akinson (G2.4) (G4.5)

Warning Ares Dion (C1.7)

Warning John Montana (C1.7)

Thank you for doing your part in keeping the community clean.

Your report has been approved and action has been taken against the reported player.

If you are out of pocket due to this case please now open a compensation request here, Do make sure to mention this report.