[N.L.A] Spooner, About the community and how we deal with problems.

Hello to everyone, this is gonna be a long text so bare with me. I will start of by saying that i do love this community with the bottom of my hearth, have put in at least a good 800-1000 hours into the server and loves the roleplay and the people in it. 2016-03-11 i get banned for the first time because of this situation. Please read the report and also check the video.



Link to any evidence (Youtube/Screenshot)

http://plays.tv/video/56e3561548c20beee4

Now to the problem at hand. INS TikTak has been spared from this situation and alot of people got banned because of it, anger is boiling and how the situation has been dealt with is terrible, and that is from a guy who always tries to resolve problems before going to admins, no option given this time. 

You tried to resolve the situation with the player(s) before reporting

No

I see this is a way bigger issue than being banned, it's how we deal with problems in this community, when did we stop talking/informing each other when faults are being made so we can correct them and get better? I don't think im hasty to say that INS TikTak decides not to RP at all with the mindset to ban people, and get backed up by admins and the only thing he says in the video is this.

"Nope its not fair, and im taking the video now and takes it straight to the admins" (on teamspeak only)

I go in with the mindset to have a good roleplay with the police but is treated with silence, and banned for having my gun out in greenzone (the crime i really have done). Crumble acted on this report and banned people that were named but half of the people in the scenario still walks free, so does INS TikTak who apparently haven't broken any rules. If you look true the reports you see a lot of single people who have broken rules, many of them correct and has to be dealt with properly. To put in 10 names into one report when we are 30 rebels is basically calling a witch hunt, nothing of this is positive and constructive and dealt with in the correct way. We in the NLA have said and still are stating, if our gang members is breaking the rules we will make sure that they are informed and understand there mistakes to make them fit better into the community. If you have issues with what the gang does or how we act tell us and we will pass along the information to all our members, but unfortunately they choose not to try to correct the mistakes but rather went for a ban approach. 

Worring facts:
I can't report him cause that is apparently seeking revenge, even if i just wanted the other side of the story to be shown.

This is not a revenge report (Abuse will lead to forum/community bans)

I am not allowed to talk with Crumble concerning how he deals with issues/ban's cause then i get warned to be banned.

Because of all this, people have started loosing faith for the community and how it is maintained and how we behave towards each other. If anyone would have contacted me that we need to spread this information or inform the clans, then i as a NLA Mentor would more than happy help out. No one talked to me, no one responded when i tried to talk with them, and that i think is sad. The ones who listened to me couldn't do anything for me.

So i just think it like this... Both parties did wrongs here, yes i walk into greenzone with my gun out, would i have followed orders if he would have told me to leave or i will be tazed in 5 seconds, yes.. Did he go into greenzone to try to avoid RP and decide to not to RP at all, shoot hes tazer without initiation, to then not try to resolve the situation, banning half who was involved, going in with the mindset to ban people, being backed up by admins without even trying to resolve/improve and walk out free on the other side, i say no...

So i would like to open this as discussion how we deal with issues, am i alone here or did i just get hanged without a trail?

Best regards [N.L.A] Spooner

@Crumble@TikTak 

I would certainly say that I personally find a lot of the bans handed out in this community to be a bit over the top. I understand that its necessary to ban people who run around and troll with no intent of playing seriously on the server, but when its old-time members who have been a part of the community for a long time, who gets banned permanently, or for a very long time, then I think its a bit too drastic.

The way nearly every single other community I've been in or heard of do it, is to issue a short ban suitable for a small offense. Like, having a gun in your hands in a greenzone isn't exactly something that ruins the experience for other players, well some might argue that it does slightly, but not at all compared to people who RDM etc. I would say something like this could be justified with a 1-3 day long ban or something like that, at least the first couple of times it happens. Obviously if the same person keeps breaking the same rules multiple times, a permanent ban will be necessary, but a lot of the time thats not what happens, afaik.

AND JUST TO CLARIFY, THIS IS HOW I EXPERIENCE THINGS, I MIGHT BE COMPLETELY WRONG

Befor i say anything i would like too thanks staff for dealing with rude people, crule people, pure RDMers and disgusting people every day. it takes a lot to keep calm in thos situations.

About the situation u are mentioning up there spooner, i personaly have to say i found a few things really bad.

1. The way the cop handeled the situation.

This could have so easy been handeled profesionaly with out any big consequences.
If the cop would have said something like: If you guys do not holster you'r rifles and leave the police station u will all be arested, i'm sure everyone there would have done so.

But instead choocing to "record to hand to the admins" is poor.

I my self was banned for choocing not to talk wen i tought someone did break a rule, so why should it be okay if TikTak dose it?
Its clealy the baning need to be loocked at and changed

2. Tazing/shooting

First of there were no warning befor tazing, this clasifies has RDM even tho its tazer.
 

now even tho he did taze people do not give us rebels the right to break rules either so i found it disqusting to watch the cop get kild. but i would say in a way, he deserved it. but afthe all he were in a greenzone

3. Greenzone

I personaly think that u should be allowed to have ur weapon out in a green zone for self defence only.
It happens that rulebreakers do come to greenzone. and its shit having to die because of them. and u should also be allowed too defend ur self against cops if needed.

But u should not be allowed to rob or steal in green zone still. nor flee to it. but if initiated on in green zone RP wise u would defend ur self still.

This is at least how i feel  about this topic

Think about it though, a player is a player, if they break a rule, they will be dealt with like all others accordingly. Now I do understand what you mean by straight up banning the ones that ruin it for others (RDM, VDM, Trolling etc) but at the end of the day, a rule still stands and everyone will be treated the same.

However, some rules could be dealt with by having a conversation, just reassuring them to reread the rules once more (a warning more or less), but on the other hand, big rules such as mass RDM, mass VDM should be a ban without warning due to the mess and irritating nonsense it causes.

All in all though, many people break rules everyday, so for the Admin team to have a detailed conversation with them one by one will be near impossible.

At risk of stepping into a mess in which I am not welcome, I think the entire situation has been dealt with in a slightly unusual fashion and I will take this fortunate opportunity to break down the situation somewhat since that should be the intention of this post. Just from the video alone (wasn't there at the time myself) it seems as if there was not malicious intent. You clearly see people say "oh this is greenzone you should holster" in the chat.  I think this is ESPECIALLY easy to mistake as Athira station is not greenzone at all and confusion could easily be had. The OOC messages seen in the video clearly affirm that for at least a % of the involved, this mistake was legitimately made.

(6.2) Weapons must be holstered inside greenzones at all times.

Obviously this right here is the problem we have but I think there is a distinct issue that the people involved would have been perfectly happy to talk and admit their mistake and in any other situation it would seem that this would be a requirement. It is strange that just due to the sheer number of people, it is implied that you don't bother resolving with a large group (I would almost expect the opposite.) The locking of the thread also limited the ability of accused community members to have their say which as much as I understand the reasoning behind doing, it doesn't really allow for this kind of resolution to take place.

Speaking as an officer myself I can empathize with TikTak's ingame actions and wouldn't suggest that he went far wrong but I feel that the slightly accusatory nature of the messages "fail RP" and such likely didn't help the situation and a message like "this is a greenzone guys please holster weapons so we can RP properly" would have been slightly more useful. I also understand that being quoted on what you said while 10+ rule breakers are around you, you are on your own and they are all talking at once so no RP can really happen is a little bit unfair so I would suggest anyone should hold TikTak to what he said in teamspeak.

I think TikTak would not have been able to get any meaningful initiation in either as the situation was too far out of hand with everyone talking at once but I do disagree with the use of the taser slightly. I would like to say that the person that shot back in greenzone was (in my opinion) in the wrong but controlling the desperate situation by tasering people (who were breaking a rule anyway) and keeping it somewhat controlled is not a massive mistake and while a short word of advice to act differently in future may be in order, I wouldn't expect any action to be taken.

In summary, I don't think any action should be taken against TikTak any further than a smack on the wrist but I also think that the people with weapons in greenzone have been slightly unjustly punished for what appears like a legitimate mistake. If more time was given for TikTak to respond and for some more discussion to happen, I have a feeling I would not be typing this post in the first place. The person that shot and killed in greenzone quite clearly acted wrongly and is in my opinion the only person who should be punished. I understand that bans are not meant to be un-appealable (mostly) and can be used to temporary handle a difficult situation like this until people can explain themselves but I think that a lack of resolution at the very least with a leading member of the gangs involved is a poor example of how we should deal with problems. I expect that with the flurry of unban appeals we will potentially be seeing over the next few days the situation will become clearer and anyone banned will be able to explain themselves on a more private space without having the opinions of 10 others in the way.

Don't want to fault the admins here because a rule break is a rule break but it is actually one of very few rules that isn't labeled with "punishment is a ban" and therefore it would be a little bit harsh for anyone to be banned for it. If you would like to make the failRP argument I completely stand by that but it still seems a little bit strange to me to be so harsh with half of the members involved not getting a chance to speak from their point of view.

As I said, I was not involved or punished in this situation so it seems strange for me to speak but having patrolled many times with TikTak and knowing he is a capable officer who would act as I would in my situations, I feel like an analytical approach is required to get a fair answer.