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TCK Matt

The State of Roleplay and “Initiations”

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TCK Matt    414
TCK Matt

Recently we’ve had a change of view from the staff team regarding the question of “at what point can you shoot someone?”. Can you shoot someone when they point a gun at you? Can you shoot someone if they threaten you?

I point you at the rule below.

(7.1.3) Killing someone must be carried out with high quality roleplay, “put your hands up or I will shoot” etc is considered low quality RP and may lead to a ban for RDM/Fail RP. Executing another player must also be carried out with high quality roleplay, the only exception to this rule is if both you and the victim are engaged in a gunfight together.

Today the staff team is clarifying it’s interpretation of this rule and the way we deal with reports for RDM/Fail RP.

The answer you will now receive to questions like “at what point can I shoot?” “Can I shoot him if he does X?” will be, have you engaged in high quality roleplay before you shot him?

We will not give a black and white definition of when you can shoot someone, you need to ensure you engage in roleplay of a high quality before you shoot someone. Nor will we give you an example of the minimum.

We have listened to your concerns, we have seen the incidents and we want the standard of RP to increase server wide and we want to help everyone to learn how to do that instead of banning for breaking of black and white unwritten rules.

My best advice is make your roleplay as interesting as you can, instead of running up to that guy you want to rob and telling him immediately to put his hands up give him a bit more, ask him what he’s up to, make a comment about this truck or his lovely pair of sunglasses.

BE CREATIVE!

- Matt and the Staff Team

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Nickleson Sam    31
Nickleson Sam

Thanks for the much needed clarification Matt!

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Mads Frost    77
Mads Frost

+1 aubergine from me

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SGT Kai    17
SGT Kai

I totally agree with this mate, sometimes i am in situations where i get shot and i feel that more role play could of been engaged😄

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Casiey    47
Casiey

Thank god for this, no more getting sprayed down after a few words, any other outcome would've been not so good 😀

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Ali Barber    276
Ali Barber

simply put. FUCK YES!

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Simen    1,370
Simen

Did I miss something or hasn't this already been in the rules for a long time? O.o

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Fergus the Hostage    2,366
Fergus the Hostage

So we as police can still be shooting we tell someone "stop or you will be tazed / non lethal force will be used against you."

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Samatlewis    4,534
Samatlewis
1 minute ago, DSGT Fergus said:

So we as police can still be shooting we tell someone "stop or you will be tazed / non lethal force will be used against you."

If there is quality to the situation you are in. Otherwise, I don’t think you understood what the post is all about.

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Fergus the Hostage    2,366
Fergus the Hostage
1 minute ago, Samatlewis said:

If there is quality to the situation you are in. Otherwise, I don’t think you understood what the post is all about.

How do you mean? I'm asking a question and this is an initiation post?

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Samatlewis    4,534
Samatlewis
Just now, DSGT Fergus said:

How do you mean? I'm asking a question and this is an initiation post?

I read it as a statement as it lacked correct punctuation.

Also, as stated in the post staff will not be giving black and white definitions, hence my original answer.

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CST Alfred H    172
CST Alfred H
20 minutes ago, DSGT Fergus said:

 "stop or you will be tazed / non lethal force will be used against you."

If that's the first thing you say to someone then expect someone to be pissed that you have not given them any RP. 

Being tazed/rubbered is as good as being shot. As in my book as soon as you can not defend yourself due to being restrained  (because of non-lethal force being used on me) it's very much one sided. You generally end up with a ticket, losing your gear or prison. 

You leave said individual no real choose but to counter initiate on you. This will result in someone's death, then a report for RDM or fail RP.  All of which this post is try to end.  

 

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_Jesse_    554
_Jesse_

I dont mind having a little convo and some longer rp to initiate, but as a cop whenever i approach anyone they usually just run away or continue selling their stuff or proccessing... how would you say handle that? Cuz it makes it hard to rp with people who do that.

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TCK Matt    414
TCK Matt
9 minutes ago, _Jesse_ said:

I dont mind having a little convo and some longer rp to initiate, but as a cop whenever i approach anyone they usually just run away or continue selling their stuff or proccessing... how would you say handle that? Cuz it makes it hard to rp with people who do that.

As long as you give your best quality RP and give them the opportunity to do the same there's nothing more you can do if they simply don't want to return that roleplay.

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Tommy Shelby    979
Tommy Shelby

OK serious question here, if I'm doing a 'snatch and grab' hostage taking, and clearly the whole point is to get them as soon as possible with minimal fuss and then RP with them whilst they are a hostage. If you begin to threaten them and a cop decides to use this RP rule against you, as in refuse to put their hands up after you've threatened them as they know in theory you can't really shoot due to you having to give high qual RP what would could you do?

 

 

Example, I jump out of a vehicle and draw my weapon, there is a cop standing there. I tell them 'Place your hands above your head right now, do not radio in your location and do no draw a weapon, if you fail to do so you shall be shot/rubbered / knocked out' etc. (You have to be blunt I mean you're taking them hostage if you piss around they shall call for back-up, regardless of whether or not you're hostile to them)

If they fail to comply and you carry out these actions is this still breaking the rule? Because like I said the whole point is you RP after you have them not whilst you're in the process of getting them. Obviously as UNMC backup is often called the second you get out of the car. I'm assuming this would just be common sense? Value your life or face being shot sort of thing?
 

 

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Danish    1,169
Danish

I think applying the appropriate roleplay in the appropriate situation would be a more ideal rule. For example you shouldn't strike up a conversation with someone, if you're planning to snatch and grab them. You would realistically tell them to comply and use force, if they didn't. I think it using common sense would be much easier.

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Dexterio    10
Dexterio

This could make situations like this much more interesting, especially situations where both party’s have guys in the area might lead to party’s calling It quits and leave each other alone  and might decrease the amount of gunfights that happen. I see a lot of reports coming in against people that haven’t seen this though. 

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Dredd the Destroyer    836
Dredd the Destroyer
1 hour ago, CST Alfred H said:

If that's the first thing you say to someone then expect someone to be pissed that you have not given them any RP. 

Being tazed/rubbered is as good as being shot. As in my book as soon as you can not defend yourself due to being restrained  (because of non-lethal force being used on me) it's very much one sided. You generally end up with a ticket, losing your gear or prison. 

You leave said individual no real choose but to counter initiate on you. This will result in someone's death, then a report for RDM or fail RP.  All of which this post is try to end.  

 

There is another perfectly viable option to 'counter initiating'. You can accept that you've been caught and do your best to make the most of the time leading up to being dropped off at the prison, or talk about how you've learned from your mistakes, or about how you feel awful about all the bad things you've done.

In my time in the police, I've seen hundreds of situations end in a small ticket and a gun being taken because the perp has offered a civil, engaging conversation rather than immediately alerting officers to he presence of 'friends in the area'. 

 

This new way of looking at situations, I hope, will take the state of the layer base on this server back to how it was when I first found it, back when people didn't get all fired up and threaten to post complaints or reports each and every time they were shot.

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TCK Matt    414
TCK Matt

@Tommy Shelby it's up to you to interpret what's going to be good RP or not.

For me a lot of people need to learn that RP isn't about winning or losing as @Dredd the Destroyer says.

The rule says you can't kill or execute without that element of high quality roleplay, as long as you give that quality you're good to go. We want these situations where someone just suddenly shoots the other guy because they suddenly feel they qualify to shoot them to vanish for good. We went tense stand offs, we want shit to hit the fan suddenly when the guy dashes behind his truck and you lose sight after he's distracted you and the chase begins, RP ALL THE THINGS!

We understand this will take some adjustment so staff have all been briefed on how we're handling situations from now on and for me it's a fantastically positive step towards new heights of quality RP.

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Pee Money    813
Pee Money

Go on matt lad tell them how it's done.

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Ant Arni    1,194
Ant Arni

Few questions about this:

Let's imagine you spike strip a hemt on it's way to the weed processor. You then tell the man inside to step out the vehicle without a weapon or he will be shot, at which point he steps out and pulls his weapon. Are you in no right to shoot him? How are you meant to put in some more high quality roleplay if at any moment this man can attempt to defend himself as according to him you are going to kill him?

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TCK Matt    414
TCK Matt

@Ant Arni If he's killed you without engaging in high quality roleplay then he's broken the rule, simple as that.

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Pee Money    813
Pee Money
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Ant Arni said:

Few questions about this:

Let's imagine you spike strip a hemt on it's way to the weed processor. You then tell the man inside to step out the vehicle without a weapon or he will be shot, at which point he steps out and pulls his weapon. Are you in no right to shoot him? How are you meant to put in some more high quality roleplay if at any moment this man can attempt to defend himself as according to him you are going to kill him?

Isn't that the whole point of telling him to get out without a weapon? I mean you tell him to get out WITHOUT a weapon if he decides to get out with a weapon then its fair game to shoot him, you give him your demands he didn't follow them so he get's shot. 

 

You Russians think crazy like Ant

 

I also think crazy as i never read your post properly 😀

Edited by Pee Money
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TCK Matt    414
TCK Matt
1 minute ago, Pee Money said:

Isn't that the whole point of telling him to get out without a weapon? I mean you tell him to get out WITHOUT a weapon if he decides to get out with a weapon then its fair game to shoot him, you give him your demands he didn't follow them so he get's shot. 

 

You Russians think crazy like Ant

 

I also think crazy as i never read your post properly 1f600.png

If you provide high quality RP, the other person still doesn't follow your demands then it's fair game.

I'd like to hope you'd broaden your horizon a little further than "Get out without a gun or you'll be shot" though seeing as that's pretty much hands up or die.....

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LastNickLeft    917
LastNickLeft

@Dredd the Destroyer I absolutely agree with what you are saying, but I believe that sometimes officers should give a bit more chance to roleplay with them rather than just do their thing because they already checked you on a PNC and want you to slip, make a mistake and get caught on it. Sometimes I feel like I’m being creative, make it fun for them, roleplay for a while and then I get the same treatment as if I was just hostile and refusing to talk. 

It’s not just a police problem, if people learned that you don’t always have to win, you don’t always have to be right and accept the fact that sometimes you really just die or loose your weapon it would be a much more enjoyable environment for everyone.

People also complain a lot about “Stop or you will be tased”... well if you are running away from the police what else are meant to say? “Please sir stop running from me to that alleyway or I will be forced to use my power as a police officer and use non lethal force to stop you escaping, and if you pose any threat to me or my officers we will have to defend ourselves with lethal force”... that just doesn’t work. If you are trying to run away and get away from the police accept the fact that they will try to stop you as soon as possible.. which is absolutely normal and relatable to real life. 

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