RDM In Cop HQ - Ban.

[SGT Jake]

Hi, my in game name is Jake.

I was banned earlier today by an Admin for RDMing in the Cop Base. Not sure for how long, but I kinda suspect it's permanent. To be honest, it's my fault, and i'm not saying your decision's wrong in any way.

So yea, I was massively annoyed at the recent changes to the server's framework, so I felt like doing something stupid (Being a rebel with a gun) before I left the server for good. I killed a Cop in the Kavala HQ, and It was kind of a retaliation thing. Cops have shot me before for pointing a gun at them, and  a cop had noticed me in the cop base - I feel as if that would make it okay to shoot on sight, considering that I could lose my £500k Rebel Membership if arrested. So I made my way round the back of the Cop base, went in the door and blasted a Cop with my Rahim...

I may have shot the wrong Cop. Tazed, Imprisoned and Banned 2 Minutes later.

Now, I'm not saying what i've done wasn't against the rules, but I feel as if I should be allowed a second chance - I wouldn't really be here otherwise. I've been praised for my role-playing by both Cops & Rebels before, and I feel as if I can keep doing this on Altis UK - It's a great server, and I must admit I took the recent changes the wrong way.

Alright, gonna stop the wall of text here. Make your decision, i'm happy either way with your... oh so careful consideration.

 

[SGT Jake]

In fact, it just so turns out that I didn't do anything wrong whatsoever.

The rules state that Players using weapons without a Rebel Membership are to be considered RDMers. Secondly, they state that attacks on towns (even if this isn't considered to be one) by more than one person is to be considered RDMing.

And there we go. I am a Rebel with a valid Membership, and I was one guy on my own attacking Cops in a town, as rebels do day in, day out.

To be honest, I feel as if this is evidence of Cops bitching to the Admins about RDM even though it was completely legitimate, as they are known to do.

Not great, really.

 

[(ASR) DaiVader]

I agree with you on this one, your a rebel meaning you can fire at cops on sight and considering you were the only one there was no need to announce it, if anything I believe the police weren't doing a good enough job that you managed to get that close with a rifle in hand.

 

[SGT Jake]

I agree with you on this one, your a rebel meaning you can fire at cops on sight and considering you were the only one there was no need to announce it, if anything I believe the police weren't doing a good enough job that you managed to get that close with a rifle in hand.

Thanks for the support Dai ^.^

 

[SGT Jake]

It's been three days, I have a feeling it's a custom to ask for some sort of decision or communication with an Admin/Dev at this point, I believe?

Anyways, much appreciated.

 

[LFHG92]

"Altis Life UK - Serious Roleplay Community."​

 ​

Killing cops purely because you're alone and have the valid license to do so doesn't permit you to shot on sight any Police. As I've stated, in the tag line, the server is a serious role play community. From what you've said I see no hint of roleplay nor a decent reason to go on a mindless killing spree of the Police. Unless this is the case you should probably state it. Otherwise you'll most likely remain banned. In addition, it's probably reason the appeal is being ignored for now. ​

 ​

But anyway, that's just my input. ​

 

[SGT Jake]

"Altis Life UK - Serious Roleplay Community."​

 ​

Killing cops purely because you're alone and have the valid license to do so doesn't permit you to shot on sight any Police. As I've stated, in the tag line, the server is a serious role play community. From what you've said I see no hint of roleplay nor a decent reason to go on a mindless killing spree of the Police. Unless this is the case you should probably state it. Otherwise you'll most likely remain banned. In addition, it's probably reason the appeal is being ignored for now. ​

 ​

But anyway, that's just my input. ​

LFHG, few things.

Nowhere at all in the rules does it state that having a rebel license and being alone stops me from shooting on sight any cops. Even with that, I've already stated:

"Cops have shot me before for pointing a gun at them, and  a cop had noticed me in the cop base - I feel as if that would make it okay to shoot on sight, considering that I could lose my £500k Rebel Membership if arrested"

Again. Cops have shot me before for pointing a gun at them, with no RP in the slightest. I've done the same, even though they clearly knew I was there and the risk was high enough for me to shoot them. The killing wasn't just because I could, It was because of the situation I was in - one that would get me arrested/shot and maybe lose my rebel license.

To be honest, the rules seem to imply having a rebel license and being alone makes me an enemy of the police, which seems to be enough to shoot them.

 

[TinyBigJacko]

You're a little behind the times, Muff - you no longer lose the 500k licence automatically if you get sent to jail. This change was *specifically* to reduce the amount of 'rebel-shoot-cop-on-sight' occurences. We understood WHY rebels were getting into that frame of mind (so that they could stop cops getting close enough to restrain them), but this unfortunately led to a similarly undesirable reaction where 'cop-shoot-rebel-on-sight', because he knew that 'rebel-would-shoot-him-on-sight'.

All because the licence cost was so high that it became impractical for the rebels to accept jail.

And of course we know that the licence cost was set so high, because it stops trolls and civs getting major weapons ten minutes after they've joined the server... and that actually worked.

Now, having said that, the rules on 'shoot-cop-on-sight' were somewhat more flexible for the rebels than they were for ordinary civs. If it was a civ shooting a cop, especially in a city, it was likely a bannable offence right there. But for rebels, of course we expect them to engage with cops from time to time, but we hope that it will be done more often in a 'set piece' type engagement, rather than lone-wolf type situations. Otherwise the lone-wolf sniping at range and then running away simply turns us into Wasteland, doesn't it?

There is also the question of the RL-inspired side of being a rebel. Rebels generally DON'T work alone - they're an organised faction. They have their own internal chain of command, even if they are cellular groups. They may plan their own missions and attacks, but they tend not to just run around shooting cops whilst visiting the cashpoints in RL, simply because it exposes the rest of the rebel group to heightened awareness, criticism from the public, and reduces their chances of achieving their goals. Rebel actions need to be 'sold' to the civilians, or done on their behalf, or at the very least, done in concert with other rebels, so that no single rebel ends up ruining their organisation's standing. Obviously there's a lot of scope here, and I'm not suggesting that rebels should NEVER work alone (heck, if a rebel stumbles across a cop in the middle of the desert, and the cop gets a bit too twitchy, whose to say anyone would ever find his body?.... but it's a bit different in downtown Kavala on a Saturday night, isn't it?)

So. Cops are not simply there for target practice now. They are an obstacle to be avoided, worked-around, exploited, kidnapped, bamboozled, corrupted - whatever the rebel can or needs to get away with in the course of their group's objective. And sometimes killed, but usually as a last resort (if alone) or as part of a larger scale attack (if approved via the Rule 5B clause). The cops no longer exist just for individual rebels to use as trophies. They're there for ROLEPLAY.... which may or may not end in jail, a firefight, or an alliance - or anything in between. Both sides of that equation need to give each other time to RP, and take into account that (especially when menus are on-screen, or when group-chats are full of noise) that the RP may sometimes be a little stilted. But the presumption is that cops are TRAINED to take this into account (I grant you, some are better at it than others, currently), and that Rebels have LEARNED how to do this (by dint of having been on the server long enough to earn the kind of money necessary to join the rebels).

We may one day go to whitelisting for rebels, but personally, I'd prefer not to. I want the rebels to be an 'organic' sort of group or groups - self evolving, self-regulating, and handling their rules of engagement internally, without requiring Admins to constantly come along and re-explain the rules or resolve the minutae of the differences in RP style.

So where does this leave you, Muffin? Difficult to say at this point without hearing your response to the above. It will all depend on whether the joy of the 'lone-wolf' kill is more attractive to you than actually being part of an organised (or at least semi-organised) group, whether it exists in practice or not, or is just RPed as such in terms of it being your 'backstory'. You've already said that you felt like doing something stupid by way of retaliating against the server-changes, and this distresses me somewhat because there will always be server-changes, and that won't automatically give you the right to raise merry hell and havoc simply because you don't like something. The rules are there so that we can all have some fun, hopefully without the admins having to wipe everybody's noses and tie their shoelaces for them, even if they are in a bad mood because daddy's changed the way their toys work.

Over to you...

 

[SGT Jake]

You're a little behind the times, Muff - you no longer lose the 500k licence automatically if you get sent to jail. This change was *specifically* to reduce the amount of 'rebel-shoot-cop-on-sight' occurences. We understood WHY rebels were getting into that frame of mind (so that they could stop cops getting close enough to restrain them), but this unfortunately led to a similarly undesirable reaction where 'cop-shoot-rebel-on-sight', because he knew that 'rebel-would-shoot-him-on-sight'.

All because the licence cost was so high that it became impractical for the rebels to accept jail.

And of course we know that the licence cost was set so high, because it stops trolls and civs getting major weapons ten minutes after they've joined the server... and that actually worked.

Now, having said that, the rules on 'shoot-cop-on-sight' were somewhat more flexible for the rebels than they were for ordinary civs. If it was a civ shooting a cop, especially in a city, it was likely a bannable offence right there. But for rebels, of course we expect them to engage with cops from time to time, but we hope that it will be done more often in a 'set piece' type engagement, rather than lone-wolf type situations. Otherwise the lone-wolf sniping at range and then running away simply turns us into Wasteland, doesn't it?

There is also the question of the RL-inspired side of being a rebel. Rebels generally DON'T work alone - they're an organised faction. They have their own internal chain of command, even if they are cellular groups. They may plan their own missions and attacks, but they tend not to just run around shooting cops whilst visiting the cashpoints in RL, simply because it exposes the rest of the rebel group to heightened awareness, criticism from the public, and reduces their chances of achieving their goals. Rebel actions need to be 'sold' to the civilians, or done on their behalf, or at the very least, done in concert with other rebels, so that no single rebel ends up ruining their organisation's standing. Obviously there's a lot of scope here, and I'm not suggesting that rebels should NEVER work alone (heck, if a rebel stumbles across a cop in the middle of the desert, and the cop gets a bit too twitchy, whose to say anyone would ever find his body?.... but it's a bit different in downtown Kavala on a Saturday night, isn't it?)

So. Cops are not simply there for target practice now. They are an obstacle to be avoided, worked-around, exploited, kidnapped, bamboozled, corrupted - whatever the rebel can or needs to get away with in the course of their group's objective. And sometimes killed, but usually as a last resort (if alone) or as part of a larger scale attack (if approved via the Rule 5B clause). The cops no longer exist just for individual rebels to use as trophies. They're there for ROLEPLAY.... which may or may not end in jail, a firefight, or an alliance - or anything in between. Both sides of that equation need to give each other time to RP, and take into account that (especially when menus are on-screen, or when group-chats are full of noise) that the RP may sometimes be a little stilted. But the presumption is that cops are TRAINED to take this into account (I grant you, some are better at it than others, currently), and that Rebels have LEARNED how to do this (by dint of having been on the server long enough to earn the kind of money necessary to join the rebels).

We may one day go to whitelisting for rebels, but personally, I'd prefer not to. I want the rebels to be an 'organic' sort of group or groups - self evolving, self-regulating, and handling their rules of engagement internally, without requiring Admins to constantly come along and re-explain the rules or resolve the minutae of the differences in RP style.

So where does this leave you, Muffin? Difficult to say at this point without hearing your response to the above. It will all depend on whether the joy of the 'lone-wolf' kill is more attractive to you than actually being part of an organised (or at least semi-organised) group, whether it exists in practice or not, or is just RPed as such in terms of it being your 'backstory'. You've already said that you felt like doing something stupid by way of retaliating against the server-changes, and this distresses me somewhat because there will always be server-changes, and that won't automatically give you the right to raise merry hell and havoc simply because you don't like something. The rules are there so that we can all have some fun, hopefully without the admins having to wipe everybody's noses and tie their shoelaces for them, even if they are in a bad mood because daddy's changed the way their toys work.

Over to you...

He TBJ, Focusing on the latter part of what you've said...

I am, with no doubt, far more interested in the idea of a group of rebels working together. I've done it many times before, a town takeover the night before the now-taken-back reset being just one.

Now, with my "something stupid". Honestly, it wasn't really retaliation against the changes - more so simply, something stupid before I left. Something stupid it may be, and I get you might be worried about what I did and how it could repeat itself in the future, but to be honest - If I'm gonna do something stupid, raising "merry hell and havoc" it's gonna be within the rules - no matter if I plan on leaving the server or not. I still feel as if I didn't deserve to be banned, more asked to RP. But that's not what you're asking, is it?

You want to know if i'm willing to make the server a better place, with RP. My honest answer: I have tried to do so before, and I will do so again in the future - if your choice is in my favour.

I did some stupid thing, from an RP perspective, but it was within the rules. I'll keep following the rules in the future, and try my best to encourage Roleplay - I have, infact, messaged DaiVader, who posted above, in regards to working alongside his group of rebels - more evidence of my will to RP, no?

That's all I can say there, but I'm still kinda sad that this will be a stain on what was a very good record of RPing - so no matter if i'm chosen to be unbanned or not - if I didn't deserve to be, make it known.

Thanks.

 

[SGT Jake]

Hey,

any sort of verdict/progression gonna happen with this soon? Don't mean to be an ass, just don't want peeps thinking I may have just "disappeared", if that's why this isn't being responded to.

Cheers

 

[Reverend]

I say let this guy in, for what my opinion is worth. 

I am against kill on sight (This ain't Call of Duty) and rebelling against server changes is dickless. The admins work their asses off to try and keep things running smoothly whilst pleasing the majority. (The polls for big changes etc.) 

Plus, the cops are generally sound. Have a bit of banter, give them your excuse and take the spanking. I've yet to be jailed, but then that's probably because I RP, own up to my sins and have never shot on sight. (Vehicle thefts and accidental manslaughters from crashes are usually my crimes. 

But really... Walking into a cop shop and opening fire... What were you thinking? You need to stop watch the Terminator, mate. ;-)

 

[SGT Jake]

I say let this guy in, for what my opinion is worth. 

I am against kill on sight (This ain't Call of Duty) and rebelling against server changes is dickless. The admins work their asses off to try and keep things running smoothly whilst pleasing the majority. (The polls for big changes etc.) 

Plus, the cops are generally sound. Have a bit of banter, give them your excuse and take the spanking. I've yet to be jailed, but then that's probably because I RP, own up to my sins and have never shot on sight. (Vehicle thefts and accidental manslaughters from crashes are usually my crimes. 

But really... Walking into a cop shop and opening fire... What were you thinking? You need to stop watch the Terminator, mate. ;-)

When I opened fire on the cops, it wasn't to rebel against the changes - hell, I was gonna leave the server immediately afterward, it'd make no difference to me. It was that little something stupid, within the rules, but not at all to get the server changes rolled back.
I'm generally very good with RPing, I have a few cops you can check that with. I'm still not sure that what I did was actually against the rules, but i'm happy to "take the spanking" and just get back playing.

 

[TinyBigJacko]

OK, spanking dealt, glad you have the attitude you have.

Unfortunately, the server is unreachable at the moment (issues at ViLayer that are outside our control, and tbh, bloody annoying), but if you PM me your ARMA3 playerid and IP address, I'll whip the ban away.

T'will be the last-chance saloon, though. At least until I forget.