Report a player - aztecas - Tezza/Terry Akinson - GTA RP

[__saiint__]

Server: GTA RP
Your Character Name: Jonny Delaney
Reported Players: aztecas - Tezza/Terry Akinson
Date: May 12, 2024
Time: 22:00
What best describes this incident: NVL/common sense
Please (in detail) describe the incident: We were 4 up in the MRAP actively disrupting a shootout between ballas and aztecas on the highway opposite prison iirc at around 10pm-ish time GMT. It had got to the stage where ballas had mostly been incapacitated and aztecas were attempting to scoop them up to id assume, dodgy them. Unfortunately despite many warnings aztecas had failed to utilise common sense and leave the area leading to firearms intervention. Now up until this point alone I can say that not leaving a neutral area when told to by police in regards to mass shootouts is really poor RP and not inline with any kind of common sense - it would obviously be different if it was 'their turf' but this was a motorway next to a prison.

Now there is some backstory - the report is being made specifically about something becoming more and more prevalent in gang shootouts it seems, and in most instances its ridiculous. An azteca I believe to be Tezza, who refused to leave the area in his vehicle was being tailed by us in the MRAP. He failed to negotiate a slight hill and ended up on his roof, at this point we decided to then put an armed intervention on the vehicle. 3 AFO's and two FTOC armed traffic units all had the azteca at gunpoint, a clear disadvantage. He proceeded to get out of his vehicle and place his hands up (as requested) but then started running around, gun in hand using his radio even when Alec had given him clear instructions to stand still. Had he been held at taser point, id give the benefit of the doubt but there was a real risk to his life and he showed complete disregard for it. Ideally I would like an example to be made in this instance so the increasing behaviour of NVL and poor RP regarding being challenged (when obviously outnumbered) by police decreases.

Just to clear it up as well, I have no issues with police being shot at or challenged in an active situation, those situations usually lead to some really interesting RP - my issue is the NVL only, and my question is; if the shoe was on the other foot, civ on civ or civ on police, would people deem it acceptable?

I did not attempt to reach out in OOC, nor do I wish to - as this is an increasing problem that I believe needs to be dealt with publicly on the forums.

The evidence I am providing is the BWV, an OOC conversation between two people I have blurred out as to not cause OOC animosity and I will be opening a ticket to share PNC information, again as then it cannot be used by anyone OOC.

*edit* TICKET: forums-2328

Thank you for taking the time to review my report.
Link(s) To Any Evidence: https://medal.tv/games/gta-v/clips/2cP5OxYeBHjfuo/d1337cnUrNE5?invite=cr-MSxBekMsMTY4MTY1NDU4LA https://i.gyazo.com/443c0761e06bf75410cbe8e9719d2955.png

 

[Tezza]

Hello, it's a shame you've decided to come to the forums instead of liaising. I understand that you've had a bad experience with a specific issue but I believe the actions of myself were justified and this could have all been explained had you chose to speak with me about the situation. I don't believe it's fair for you to push the report based on wanting to make an example of someone and I think this situation could have easily been talked out.

Onto the main part of the report, you seem to have provided a very short clip of a long situation and you've missed a lot of important details and factors out when outlining the situation. I'll outline them here; Aztecas and Ballas had just had a major gunfight where Aztecas came out the strongest. We had multiple members of 10+ people still alive and I was searching the area to ensure that we had retrieved all our few injured members. Police chose to engage me and disabled my vehicle, at this point I had already communicated with Aztecas over the radio about the situation I was in. They were only within half a mile max anyway and responded instantly, giving me a direction to run to and picked me up to escape (This was cut from your clip). If there wasn't any response from my gang or if there wasn't many of us left standing then I wouldn't have made the decision to run. However, we had a heavy presence in the area of alive and uninjured Aztecas which the police were more than aware of so I felt safe and protected enough by my gangs presence to be able to escape being arrested by police and I did exactly that. Had I turned round and started shooting then I'd agree that it would NVL but I complied with most of the demands and took my opportunity to safely return to the 10+ Aztecas in the area. I don't see how this isn't valuing my life, playing a criminal character and being a part of an OCG it is also an important role of our characters to avoid getting caught. This is all I did in this situation, I played my cards smartly, gave communication to my gang and escaped without being caught. I don't see how this is NVL with there being so many Aztecas already in the area.

If you would like to talk about the situation anymore, then let me know and I'd be happy to jump in a call with you. I understand your frustration with the issue you described becoming common but I don't feel like this situation fits into the category that you described.

 

[__saiint__]

I don't believe it's fair for you to push the report based on wanting to make an example of someone and I think this situation could have easily been talked out.

Firstly I appreciate the response, and thank you the time you've taken to reply. Unfortunately there is really nothing to talk out, Its quite clear cut NVL and a conversation wouldn't have done either of us any benefit. Id have expected better from someone I assume has been in the community for a while, and who I also assume has read the rules at least once.

I had already communicated with Aztecas over the radio about the situation I was in. They were only within half a mile max anyway and responded instantly, giving me a direction to run to and picked me up to escape (This was cut from your clip). If there wasn't any response from my gang or if there wasn't many of us left standing then I wouldn't have made the decision to run

I understand the point you make, however whether your buddies were 0.5 miles away or 50 miles away is unfortunately irrelevant. You were told to stand still with your hands up with 6 guns pointed at you but instead chose to run around with your hands in the air using your radio.

However, we had a heavy presence in the area of alive and uninjured Aztecas which the police were more than aware of so I felt safe and protected enough by my gangs presence

Again, unfortunately irrelevant - and inaccurate, most of your gang had fled the scene at this point.

being a part of an OCG it is also an important role of our characters to avoid getting caught

I agree, which is why you should have utilised common sense when we told you multiple times and gave you ample opportunity to disperse instead of all of you all telling us to fuck off and trying to scoop up ballas - an irrelevant point but a point I will make all the same.

I played my cards smartly, gave communication to my gang and escaped without being caught. I don't see how this is NVL with there being so many Aztecas already in the area.

As I mentioned previously, most of your lads had gone and there was only a few stragglers, such as yourself, however again that is irrelevant. Whether you consider your actions to be a smart move or not - you clearly violated the rules and NVL'd. If if was gang members holding you at gunpoint we would probably not be having this conversation because its highly likely you would have complied.

You have explained your actions and I have explained our side of things - I am more than happy for staff to make a decision.

I will also just leave this here: (G2.4) Value of Life At all times you are to value your life, if you are clearly outnumbered or at an obvious disadvantage you should comply with demands.

 

[Stuart]

I did not attempt to reach out in OOC, nor do I wish to - as this is an increasing problem that I believe needs to be dealt with publicly on the forums.

Can you explain this a bit more please?

Also in relation to the video provided I have a question as a whole, What was the outcome? Since this isn't provided.

Now up until this point alone I can say that not leaving a neutral area when told to by police in regards to mass shootouts is really poor RP

Can you elaborate on this please? As one quote I heard from one of the 4 in this MRAP was (We will bully them out of Sandy). Care to explain? As this was well before any gunfight took place. As you can see a lot of the context that matters isn't provided nor talked about so I'd like this discussed.

 

[__saiint__]

Can you explain this a bit more please?

Hello Stuart, Simply put I did not wish to liase about something so clear cut in my opinion. There wouldn't have been anything to say. I wished to put it on here so staff could make a decision.

Can you elaborate on this please? As one quote I heard from one of the 4 in this MRAP was (We will bully them out of Sandy). Care to explain? As this was well before any gunfight took place. As you can see a lot of the context that matters isn't provided nor talked about so I'd like this discussed.

Of course, the timeframe on this is just after a major fight - actually a straight up ambush - between ballas and aztecas opposite prison. We had been tailing both groups around for a good while before it broke out - in anticipation that eventually there would be issues. Ballas had gone to fight aztecas who all jumped out of nowhere on them and shots started flying. We went in to disrupt and tell everyone to leave the area and go home we gave them opportunity after opportunity were probably circling the area for a good 5 - 10 mins before taking action. Aztecas decided they were going to tell us to fuck off and start scooping ballas - most of them however disappeared to either sandy or the city beforehand. We decided to tail the zentorno as he was one of the last in the area, and that's when the NVL transpired. After the clip he hopped in his mates car after he had driven all the way back from the city id assume, and they drove off. - I'm honestly not bothered he got away, what bothers me is the NVL - If I had even one gang member holding a pistol to me id be expected to comply, whether I had back up on the way or not, this fella had 6 guns on him, a mixture of AR's and pistols.

As for the quote from the MRAP I don't recall this being said - however if it was said, the reason would have been to prevent another mass shootout happening.

 

[Stuart]

Hello Stuart, Simply put I did not wish to liase about something so clear cut in my opinion. There wouldn't have been anything to say. I wished to put it on here so staff could make a decision.

So the clear point was them running? Not everything that happened prior ?

It seems to me as a bit rushed over having a simple conversations about this might of helped more than simply rushing to the forums to have a staff decision. Staff do jump into liaisons often and we can offer some advice in a sense without influencing the person to make a report or not based on what is said during these.

As for the quote from the MRAP I don't recall this being said - however if it was said, the reason would have been to prevent another mass shootout happening.

This was when yous we're in Sandy and before driving up to the freeway to the point someone "Won't name names ofc" jumped on the radio and asked for the other patrol car to back off and wait for yous to catch up "In a nut shell" to give a timeframe the above was said.

Now you've mentioned you was following for 5-10 minutes however police arrived in Paleto and followed from there, Giving the timeframe around 20-30 minutes as a whole to the point neither gang found each other "They kept passing each other" and I'm sure you noticed this during the time as a whole.

Indeed it was an ambush set up on the freeway to where the gunfight happened and went up to the wind farm on the right, To where the police in the MRAP and multiple other police vehicles just drove around. I understand why the MRAP was there however if we are to argue the NVL aspect of the recorded situation does the same apply to the other officers simply driving around a gunfight ?

Like mentioned it isn't just what is seen on the video however the context for the full time would be needed in order to get the full story, As you may have guessed I did see most of the gunfight however didn't see what actually happened to Terry apart from when he was picked up and me thinking why threaten to shoot them and not simply do so after multiple warnings. Why didn't yous shoot after you announced it many times?

Furthermore, How did the vehicle end up on the roof? Is there any video of that so we can get the full picture?

 

[__saiint__]

So the clear point was them running? Not everything that happened prior

The clear point to me was that he had multiple guns pointed at him and he failed to comply with demands.

Now you've mentioned you was following for 5-10 minutes

We were disrupting for 5 - 10 minutes, the anticipation was indeed nearer 30.

As for the below comment, All firearms officer were equipped with full PPE and we receive 'training' to deal with situations like this - NVL states an obvious disadvantage, we were not.

I understand why the MRAP was there however if we are to argue the NVL aspect of the recorded situation does the same apply to the other officers simply driving around a gunfight

why threaten to shoot them and not simply do so after multiple warnings. Why didn't yous shoot after you announced it many times?

Quite simply on a personal level I'm not a fan of shooting people in the back with their hands up as I know it could have implications with police getting sued, and I was taking Alecs lead. Being sued for shooting someone with their hands up is something id assume the accused knew and was likely using against us. I would have hoped for the sake of RP he would have given himself up, or at least put his hands down instead of running around full speed with his hands above his head.

 

[Stuart]

Quite simply on a personal level I'm not a fan of shooting people in the back with their hands up as I know it could have implications with police getting sued, and I was taking Alecs lead. Being sued for shooting someone with their hands up is something id assume the accused knew and was likely using against us. I would have hoped for the sake of RP he would have given himself up, or at least put his hands down instead of running around full speed with his hands above his head.

Thought that may have been the case however the whole "Being sued" would depend on context. I was more curious why the threats we're made, Main things I could think of was not going to court or simply a scare tactic however always better to ask than assume.

Also how did the vehicle end up on the roof? As this would also play a part. Any video of this from any of the four in the MRAP?

As for the below comment, All firearms officer were equipped with full PPE and we receive 'training' to deal with situations like this - NVL states an obvious disadvantage, we were not.

Would depend on context again, However just from what happened during the gunfight it could be argued both ways.

Now in the report as a whole, Main things I was doing is simply getting the answers for a bigger picture. I'll have some chats before have and before a decision is made on this report it maybe seen down the line if I say it's NVL here then it will be used in all situations and that shouldn't be the case as such since not all situations are the same so the rules cannot always be applied as such without the context of them.

Also need to keep in mind that not all criminals will wish to stop and would run from police regardless of being told to stop, However there is a line there of course and that's for us to discuss and set for the players as a whole to know where it is.

In the meantime if yous wish to have a liaison then that is something I would encourage as it always helps talking to others to have a better understanding of situations and where their head was ect, As mentioned staff do sit in on these often so if this did happen one may be there.

 

[__saiint__]

how did the vehicle end up on the roof? As this would also play a part. Any video of this from any of the four in the MRAP

Sorry Stuart, I did not see the notification of your reply. The Zentorno was driving around the area attempting to continue the gunfight, at which time we decided to follow the Zentorno in the MRAP in order to 'herd' it off. It was one of the few remaining vehicles. He negotiated a slight hill wrong and ended up flipping onto his roof, however its clear to us from his multiple refusals to leave the area, that his intentions were not to leave the scene, but to continue circling the area looking for any more ballas or his own gang to pick up.

I have no idea if the others in the MRAP have video, I will ask them to comment if they do. Thanks again for your time.

 

[Stuart]

Sorry Stuart, I did not see the notification of your reply. The Zentorno was driving around the area attempting to continue the gunfight, at which time we decided to follow the Zentorno in the MRAP in order to 'herd' it off. It was one of the few remaining vehicles. He negotiated a slight hill wrong and ended up flipping onto his roof, however its clear to us from his multiple refusals to leave the area, that his intentions were not to leave the scene, but to continue circling the area looking for any more ballas or his own gang to pick up.

I have no idea if the others in the MRAP have video, I will ask them to comment if they do. Thanks again for your time.

No problem at all and thank you for the clarification. As mentioned above it may take a little for us to get around to dealing with the report however once we have had a discussion I'll circle back and review this.

If yous have anything further to add please feel free to do so, Same goes for you @Tezza

 

[Stuart]

Right lets kick this off! First off thank you for taking the time to make a player report @__saiint__

So there is a lot to unpack and no matter how I handle this report one side will be upset or disappointed in how I deal with this however we cannot please everyone and we would have to be consistent with things such as this situation as a whole. Now I do always say context matters and this could not be anymore true with this report.

Going on the video alone it is a very very short clip (20 seconds) or a nearly hour or so patrol that happened and a lot of context is missing as a result. Since I watched most of it (Not this part as I was busy watching other roleplay following the gunfight). I've mentioned above that the following comment was made by one of the four in the MRAP being (We will bully them out of Sandy). I'm unsure of the exact reasoning behind it however it just didn't sit well now seeing a report come up. Was this the intention as a whole? Was there more to it? One of them many mysteries as a whole.

I did mention multiple other police driving around a gunfight (Not in the MRAP) and the following wasn't exactly true popped below, Worth pointing out however nothing wrong with using the MRAP ect for example, However it doesn't make much sense for the average bobby (Not Firearms) just driving in the middle of it. If that officer got shot then in all honesty it's on them, NVL still applies and worth a mention so everyone is on the same page. Again nothing wrong with what the firearms did in the gunfight.

As for the below comment, All firearms officer were equipped with full PPE and we receive 'training' to deal with situations like this - NVL states an obvious disadvantage, we were not.

Moving onto the video. Now we first see the vehicle on the roof and I know there has been some speculation to what actually happened however as a video of it hasn't been provided we will never know the full story behind it over what Saiint posted above. Now we do see multiple commands being given by police such as "Get out of the vehicle" "Hands up" "Stay still" in a nutshell. Not all people will decide to comply with police as a whole as seen in this video.

Terry did put his hands up however after multiple threats to shoot him nothing ever happened, So with that in mind why would Terry bother stopping? He is a criminal and a gang member so based on that it would of been unlikely he would of listened to police. Looking at this from an objective view and talks we have had among ourselves, Police decided to offer threats and Terry called your bluff and got away.

There are many things that the police in this case could of done, Used a baton launcher, Taser (Yet there is the whole police policy behind that), Tackle if someone drank a redgull, simply shot them or however you saw fit to neutralise the threat. Unsure why none of this was done but a conversation for a different time and place.

Looking at the situation as Terry mentioned he had his friends just up the road so why wouldn't he try to run given the context provided by him and the gunfight that just happened not 200 feet up the road from where he was?. If anything this report brings more questions than answers looking on it.

I did not attempt to reach out in OOC, nor do I wish to - as this is an increasing problem that I believe needs to be dealt with publicly on the forums.

Still confused why no talk was ever asked for however if both parties simply communicated then maybe it would of been delt with and discussed on an even footing. You'd be surprised how far a conversation goes.

Last thing to keep in mind is roleplay is simply that. Some roleplay as legal characters who listen to police, Some are criminals who are a bit of both, Some will listen and others will not and Gang members who normally ignore the police. We need to keep that in mind that not all players are the same.

So with that being said and everything summarised I will be denying this report as in this case it's not NVL however Terry calling the police officers bluff and got away.