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REVERT: "Crime = No Business For 6 Months"

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avaster

Banned
Location
Devon
- Wounding with intent to do grievous bodily harm (Section 18 Offences Against the Person Act 1861)
- Murder and Attempted Murder
- Possession of a firearm or imitation firearm with intent to cause fear or violence (Section 16A Firearms Act 1968)
- Death by dangerous driving (Section 1 Road Traffic Act 1988)
- Terrorism
- Fraud




If you have been convicted of any of these crimes above, you must wait 6 months to own any business (convenience stores, gas stations).
6 months
is a ridiculous time to not be caught.

Why?:
 

  • people who grind 30mil just to have a month old GBH charge, or get hit with one inevitably
  • police who won't have anything interesting to do due to less 'interesting' crime
  • criminals who grind money wont have a business to buy/spend on
  • criminals who won't play or do anything interesting
  • less things to buy/do in the city as a crim
  • people who use the shop as a legal front
  • people who already own a business
  • 6 months is way too long

The drug change, now this.
It doesn't only fuck over criminals, it also fucks over police. Police wont have anything to do if we carry on with these changes.

Please revert this admittedly terrible change, or, make the wait shorter.


 
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Seems like a good long-term consequence for the actions of a character IMO.

-1

 
Yeah 6 months is long, Thats assuming we wont get burnt out and or even stop playing.

 
and?

these are 58 of your most dedicated players.


Im just adding some context, as the suggestion is being framed as

criminals who won't play or do anything interesting


Which is a slight over exaggeration for the 58 people is affects. Of those, a few already have their businesses setup in ways that make sense, so that the business is owned by a clean individual on paper and then the employees are who ever they need to be. It doesn't make sense for John who runs the biggest terrorist organisation in the whole city (and is known to be a terrorist) to be able to run any business he wants. As has been discussed with the shop owners, we are evaluating these changes and will make further changes where needed. This also gives civs, who actually roleplay legal lives more of a chance to succeed. Currently there is no advantage of being legal. Now there is.

I don't understand why the higherups keep bending over criminals and fucking them.
While I appreciate how emotive you are on the subject, you can't seriously believe this is true.

 
Well, I am one of those 58 and I fully agree with the changes. 

Let´s break those charges down for a minute...

- Wounding with intent to do grievous bodily harm
Even if your criminal character is silly enough to harm someone like that, proving intent in front of the court is pretty difficult. I have never gotten or given that charge within 2 years. 

- Murder and Attempted Murder
If you believe a criminal would murder someone in front of the police without covering their tracks, you gotta guess again. A bit unrealistic, no?

- Possession of a firearm or imitation firearm with intent to cause fear or violence
Again, intend needs to be proven. 

- Death by dangerous driving (Section 1 Road Traffic Act 1988)
You would have to drive dangerously, hit someone with your car AND have them bleed out for that charge to be added. All in front of the Police.

-Terrorism
I am not sure I need to explain this one now, right?

- Fraud
Same here... No explanation needed.

While it´s obviously much easier to get charges here than it would be IRL, it is not like the CoC is going to look over everyone´s record all day everyday. It needs to be brought up to them. Then you have the chance to fight the charges. You have the chance to defend yourself. And since Management will obviously have a close eye on this, the chances of someone being unlucky enough to be refused a business or to lose one, are pretty darn slim. 

Everyone on the server can be a criminal. If those 58 players are actually our most dedicated players, they won´t mind a challenge - be it 6 months of staying clean or being smart enough to not be caught. 

TL/DR - There is major safety nets put in place before anyone even sees consequences of that change... 
-1

 
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1- Again, intend needs to be proven. 
2- All in front of the Police.
3- it is not like the CoC is going to look over everyone´s record all day everyday, it needs to be brought up to them

4- they won´t mind a challenge - be it 6 months of staying clean or being smart enough to not be caught. 
1- Intent needs to be proven, and it isn't as hard to prove intent GBH compared to attempted murder.

2- In front of the police? Are you not taking into account cctv, dashcams, identification, voice, tattoos, bodycams, license plates and literally anything else?

3- police have been informed about the new change, and like you said, its 58 people, this isn't a hard process, which would probably be looked at by someone similar to CID.

4- They wont mind a challenge - really? 6 months? this isn't just a 'challenge', that is half a year. i hope you realise how long that is. at the end of the day, this is a video game, and we're all here to have fun, not to get burnt out or god for bid, server dies or the person gets banned, and on top of all of that, dont do the charges listed within 6 months.

 
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Well, I am one of those 58 and I fully agree with the changes. 
Will this even affect you seeing as you own something already? Just not sure how far reaching this rule is.

Anyway. Dont do crim RP if you dont want Crim repercussions 

-1 

 
Will this even affect you seeing as you own something already? Just not sure how far reaching this rule is.
If I start being a silly sausage now, being a full blown criminal blatantly enough to get caught - chances are I could lose my business if CoC gets wind of me being convicted for any of the above reasons... However, I would need to get arrested for one of those charges, charged with it and they have to stick in front of the court. And even then, it´s not safe to say that anyone will for sure lose their business or not be allowed to obtain one. 

It´s not as black and white as people seem to believe right now...

 
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+1   6 months is too long  imo

 
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+1 along time to wait. A lot of changes is really affecting crims. Going down the non crime route way is ok but there is not enough ways to money. 

 
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time to answer questions again, i suppose.

If you have been convicted of any of these crimes above, you must wait 6 months to own any business (convenience stores, gas stations).
Leniency exists, we may be more lenient on certain charges when it comes to any non dealership business, time will tell, we're still trialling.

Why?:
 

  • people who grind 30mil just to have a month old GBH charge, or get hit with one inevitably
  • police who won't have anything interesting to do due to less 'interesting' crime
  • criminals who grind money wont have a business to buy/spend on
  • criminals who won't play or do anything interesting
  • less things to buy/do in the city as a crim
  • people who use the shop as a legal front
  • people who already own a business
bringing this up "point by point"
> it needs to be with Intent, fight thee charge, if they can't prove you intended to do do so it won't stick, the difference can be minor to differentiate between without and with intent
> we still have about 91k other characters looking away from the 58 people that own places, obviously not all of these play, plus some are banned, so keep that in mind.
> they will
> seems like they lack a bit of creativity then, not everything has to be straight up illegal for it to be fun
> not really
> they're more than free to do so, some already do, look at Callaghans, hustlers and mara as examples, all have legal fronts(even if some if not all have been raided before)
> are still affected, you're not protected by anything a part from your own cleverness/discretness when it comes down to the fine lines

1- Intent needs to be proven, and it isn't as hard to prove intent GBH compared to attempted murder.
maybe not, but it's gonna be hard for police to prove you intended to do it, they can't read minds after all

2- In front of the police? Are you not taking into account cctv, dashcams, identification, voice, tattoos, bodycams, license plates and literally anything else?
CCTV Dashcams have some very strict guidelines behind them from the courts, identification is not always that simple, Tattoos can be copied, cars can be stolen, and Voices need more than just, well, voices to be usable by police, AKA, you need to fit the PNC picture, in your car, at your house(for example) for that to be usable

3- police have been informed about the new change, and like you said, its 58 people, this isn't a hard process, which would probably be looked at by someone similar to CID.
they don't know all 58 people.

Will this even affect you seeing as you own something already? Just not sure how far reaching this rule is.
yes.

to the rest of the people saying +1 to it, Hector has not included the whole thing, unsure if that is on purpose or not, but nonetheless
WOhPeqs.png


the indictable crimes will have a bigger effect if you intend to buy a dealership(or own one and get arrested for terrorism, and it sticks) compared to a normal gas station.
you'll get paid as we buy it back in these cases, so it's not like one night you're just gonna be missing a fuel station after 8pm with nothing said to you

6 months isn't too long, it's the same amount of time you have to fight those charges, get solicitors, and get them removed if they're incorrect charges. it's not impossible to get them removed, just takes time

on another note, people are rather quick to come to assumptions that this is bad, the initial announcement got posted by myself at 18:16(i'm a hour ahead) yesterday, as shown here 
cvxqGu1.png


it's been about 17 hours give or take(upon me posting this message), give it more than that before screaming over all mountains that we quote on quote "keep bending over criminals and fucking them" when we both know that's not our intention


on a side note, that majority of the people already owning shops, that commented on it, were on the positive side, we had a few concerns here and there that was answered, and people appeared to have been satisified, mostly atleast

Please revert this admittedly terrible change, or, make the wait shorter.
no

 
My question is if I’m clean for 6 months, then get a business and a day or a week later I get hit with a terrorism charge, do I lose the business

 
case by case basis, will also require the police to inform us of it, if they don't know you own a shop, you're in luck
Seems fair tbh, Maybe we’ll see more legal civilians rather than criminals playing monopoly 

 
The new change does not prevent any sort of roleplay for criminals who own businesses it simply means that there is a repercussion to using a legal enterprise to indiscriminately funnel money into criminal activities. -1

 
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