Report a Player - DI Fade, PC Buildurd, DSGT Fallen, SGT Oliver, DI Bennybait, SI Coozer, SPC Silker, PC Abdool, INS Angelfall, PC Daniel2sec, PC Appl

Your In-game name

[A] Boston Broiler

Name of the player(s) you are reporting

DI Fade, PC Buildurd, DSGT Fallen, SGT Oliver, DI Bennybait, SI Coozer, SPC Silker, PC Abdool, INS Angelfall, PC Daniel2sec, PC Applebyxo, DI Ponty, SGT Luker, PCSO Szplit, DSGT ScienceFreak, SPC Mcree, SGT James, SGT Fergus, SGT Vik Rambo

Date of the incident

05/26/2017

Time of the incident (GMT)

1930

What best describes this incident ?

Other

Which server did the incident take place on

Server 2

Please (in detail) describe the incident

Whilst on Server 2 we were waiting around to carry out a HM at which time there were only 9 Police on the server, after waiting some time, approximately 30 minutes we got up to around 11 Police on the server and started to move towards the HM to which the response was pretty fast by current Police who were around and we proceeded to bolt cut the door and at this stage the HM has started, there was still 10-12 cops online, moments after getting inside the first door 21 Police joined the server within minutes one after another, some of which came from Server 1 for the gun fight, of these 21 Police that joined 19 of them geared up and moved towards the HM and engaged in the gun fight either killing or being killed they all were on the feed. Each and every one of those involved should not have attended the ongoing HM as to get the information and flood into the server like that they would have had to receive this information from an external source outside of the game such as Steam, or Team speak and that is a form of Metagaming which greatly affected the outcome and the balance on the server, as well as our guys noticing what was happening, numerous other players on the server made comments in the side chat regarding the amount of cops they were seeing joining which shows we were not the only ones suspicious of their actions and or unhappy with them, this makes it even more unbalanced as once their NLR was up they returned.

This is an ongoing issue we are having which is happening to us and other gangs daily and is ruining the whole HM in general as its just making players angry at cops for doing this every time a HM starts there are also constantly the same names popping up, who are joining for the gun fight, then dying and logging off sometimes before they've even bleed out which even if successful we can't RP with the cops who are down or anything.


I have spoken to Ram about this and he has informed me this should not be happening and said to go ahead with posting a player report on those involved.


The below is a list of players who 'hopped on' for the HM/Gun fight and who they interacted with from our Gang whilst carrying out the operation.

DI Fade Hop on: Yes - Killed Kenny and Fabio
PC Buildurd (apologies if I wrote this wrong hard to see in video) Hop on: Yes - Killed Jay.
DSGT Fallen Hop on: Yes - Killed Anarchy + Boston Broiler.
SGT Oliver Hop on: Yes - Killed Damian.
DI Bennybait Hop on: Yes - Killed by Rowan.
SI Coozer Hop on: Yes - Killed + Killed by Matt Colburn (Trade). - Coozer using a Zafir (Spoken about this, he had this prior to the HM for unknown reasons - Aware this is a PCC topic).
SPC Silker - Hop on: Yes - Disconnected on death.
PC Abdool Hop on: Yes - Killed by Khalifa
INS Angelfall Hop on: Yes - Killed Tiger, Brick and Jay
PC Daniel2sec Hop on: Yes - Killed by Kenny
PC Applebyxo Hop on: Yes - Killed by Fabio
DI Ponty Hop on: Yes - Killed by Anarchy
SGT Luker Hop on: Yes - Finished off SGT Oliver and Mattie (Also poor RP for a cop) - Disconnected on death
PCSO Szplit - Hop on: Yes - Disconnected on death.
DSGT ScienceFreak - Hop on: Yes - Killed by Apex
SPC Mcree Hop on: - Killed by Jay
SGT James Mike Hop on: Yes - Killed by Kenny
SGT Fergus Hop on: Yes
SGT Vik Rambo Hop on: Yes




Came on during or after HM started not involved:

INS Gordon301
PC M0nk



Involved who appeared to be already on the server:

PC Storm
PCSO Jackman
SPC Spoon - was on prior + appeared to have connection issues.

Link to any evidence (Youtube/Screenshot)

http://plays.tv/video/5928b8a6126ad51dea/hop-on-squad-?from=user
 

http://plays.tv/video/592b5466a6d357e0e3/hop-on-squad-2?from=user

http://plays.tv/video/592b856e354f6c8967/hop-on-part-3




This report is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth!

Yes

You tried to resolve the situation with the player(s) before reporting

No

This is not a revenge report (Abuse will lead to forum/community bans)

Yes

Have you ever seen how Armed Response operate in real life?

AFO's and SFO's wait in their HQ until needed. What are you reporting us for isn't even a rule break?

You did a bank on S2, one of the scummiest things a gang your size can do. Don't expect us to not start logging on to assist.

You have 17-20 rebels robbing the HM, on SERVER 2. Against 11-12 cops, us "hopping on" isn't against any rules.

Let's not forget you guys breaking NLR to come back to the bank during the 1st Phase, which definitely isn't breaking any rules is it.

http://plays.tv/video/592b5466a6d357e0e3/hop-on-squad-2?from=user

http://plays.tv/video/592b856e354f6c8967/hop-on-part-3

Ponty said:

Have you ever seen how Armed Response operate in real life?

AFO's and SFO's wait in their HQ until needed. What are you reporting us for isn't even a rule break?

You did a bank on S2, one of the scummiest things a gang your size can do. Don't expect us to not start logging on to assist.

You have 17-20 rebels robbing the HM, on SERVER 2. Against 11-12 cops, us "hopping on" isn't against any rules.

Click to expand...

We were already on Server 2 the one we are usually on and we had pretty low numbers (around 12), there were as I said around 12 cops, 19 more came on do you need 31? I don't really feel this is the time to be calling people scummy.

The rule break is a form of meta-gaming you've received information as stated externally and reacted to it with a very large number of players.

None of us were killed twice or came back to break NLR, once we died we left the situation, if you have any issues with someone breaking NLR please speak to them directly via team speak.

Getting an early post on this to make sure it don't get out of hand. there are 20 People involved in this report ONLY those 20 can reply on here. You will all keep it civil or warning points or further action might be taken! Please keep this report clear of any hate and arguments. Thank you.

(This is not me dealing with the report just setting ground rules before the shit fest happens) 

I didn't 'finish off' Oliver. I accidentally teamkilled him because I was stupid. 

You tried to resolve the situation with the player(s) before reporting

Yes

Personally myself I haven't even been messaged or approached by any members of your gang to try and "resolve" this. And I'm sure I'm not the only person in this report who hasn't been contacted

Oliver said:

You tried to resolve the situation with the player(s) before reporting

Yes

Personally myself I haven't even been messaged or approached by any members of your gang to try and "resolve" this. And I'm sure I'm not the only person in this report who hasn't been contacted

Click to expand...

I've spoken to countless Police about this happening, higher ups in Police and staff and its an ongoing issue which doesn't stop, granted this wasn't relayed to all 19 of you individually on this occasion as we all know this would turn into an hour long he said he said, so apologies for that, discussing something like this with that many people on TS will only go one way, and at the time I was waiting on advice on how to go about it this time.

Boston Broiler said:

http://plays.tv/video/592b5466a6d357e0e3/hop-on-squad-2?from=user

http://plays.tv/video/592b856e354f6c8967/hop-on-part-3

We were already on Server 2 the one we are usually on and we had pretty low numbers (around 12), there were as I said around 12 cops, 19 more came on do you need 31? I don't really feel this is the time to be calling people scummy.

The rule break is a form of meta-gaming you've received information as stated externally and reacted to it with a very large number of players.

None of us were killed twice or came back to break NLR, once we died we left the situation, if you have any issues with someone breaking NLR please speak to them directly via team speak.




 

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Any operation you do is on S2 unless after 00:00 AM. That even goes for today, as another HM was done on S2. After a while, we wise up and react to these incidents.

And not going to lie, the past few days/weeks you guys are on a mission to get the police banned, you never attempt to resolve anything and reports are always filed before an attempt to talk it out, this could have been sorted between your gang leader, an SI and a member of staff to resolve this matter and get something like this written down as a rule.

Regardless "hopping on" makes sense for anyone to do and reporting someone for it just screams sourness because of a situation you didn't win. Any major operation would be met with a large response as many Police units are Reactive, rather than pro-active.

If I recall correctly, one major factor of us logging on to S2 was because there was a mass kick on Server 1, so we are entitled to switch server.

Ponty said:

Any operation you do is on S2 unless after 00:00 AM. That even goes for today, as another HM was done on S2. After a while, we wise up and react to these incidents.

And not going to lie, the past few days/weeks you guys are on a mission to get the police banned, you never attempt to resolve anything and reports are always filed before an attempt to talk it out, this could have been sorted between your gang leader, an SI and a member of staff to resolve this matter and get something like this written down as a rule.

Regardless "hopping on" makes sense for anyone to do and reporting someone for it just screams sourness because of a situation you didn't win. Any major operation would be met with a large response as many Police units are Reactive, rather than pro-active.

If I recall correctly, one major factor of us logging on to S2 was because there was a mass kick on Server 1, so we are entitled to switch server.

Click to expand...

No one is trying to get anyone banned, yet there are constant events happening out of anyone's control other than those breaking the rules/police handbook, I am forever getting RDM'ed or having things done to me as a result of rule breaking and I let it slide so that's not true and you're stereotyping a large group of players based on what are likely one off events, regardless that's not entirely relevant to this topic at hand.

Hopping on is tilting the odds in your favour and reacting to information from out of the game (were going in circles here).

Do you have any proof of Server 1 crashing? It is also very convenient that this happened and you all decided to switch server, and if you did, out of courtesy you should not have turned up.

Reading your report, if Im correct you are reporting me (and my fellow police members) for having a somekind of a messaging system, where we announce if there is a bankop ongoing? We as a police use slack, but at least in my slack there is no information ever about bankjobs or any police operations. If there is somekind of a underground messaging system please hook me on, because Im feeling little bit left out as im not in that one...

Now what comes to the "hopping on". I would expect the issue to begin if people start to hop on purely for the gunfight + leave and do this multiple times day after day. I do understand your concern about this as this is a life server where the weight should be in RP'ing not in the gunfights. However when I log on to play I personally dont care if there is an operation or not. I can do all the aspects of the game decently well. Obviously you sometimes look at the server population and especially how many cops are on on both servers. I would not call this metagaming as we are even encouraged to do so to balance cops on both servers. 

What I'm little upset about is that you have left dropping this report for so late and well past the common 24h mark with my math. I play several hours daily on the server usually when I encounter people I take shadowplay footage for 20min should they have any issues with me at later state. Usually also when I kill people (what you claimed I had done). Please do understand that this is quite alot of footage collected daily basis and I do this for my protection for cases like this. Should you left the report litt bit earlier me and most likely alot more officers would have been able to provide leave more counter evidence to you explaining their reasons hopping on the server what we currently can. Personally I have no footage anymore from that day.

I do understand that putting a report like this is time consuming and talking to everyone might not be an option. However I spend a good amount of my time around 20-30mins in your lobby speaking to some of your members about the rulebreaks your gang committed and other general stuff after this bank operation. Also you visited that channel but only thing you where mostly interested around that time was footage of officers using zafirs. Should you had any issues about police hopping on to the bank operation at that time, you could have just asked me what happened. I would have had been able to provide you at least some kind of a footage if need be, or at least informed me that if I have any kind of a footage I might want to save it. I have not heard from any officer that you have had a chat with them. 

What comes about me and my doings and reasons prior the logging into the server: I was playing Attack and Defend. I do not remember the exact amount of police officers nor their names but we where about to go on a S2 patrol after, if i recall correctly it was @SI Coozer's idea to do so. At that time we did not know that there where a bank operation ongoing. However when we got the rounds finished what we wanted to play it was obvious that there where bank going on we did not chance our plans to go S2 nor should we do so by any rules. However as fun as it is to kill you guys, at that time I had more interesting stuff to do and I actually was having a little meeting session with another officer in a TS. I took a part into the bank operation much later littlebit before what was most likely the second push of the police. If you have a footage you can get this information from it. Or if admins have a kill feed they can get the info from that. I would however estimate this to be good 15min into the fight as I got informed that some people I killed had been killed previously in that bank operation (and i would atleast hope they respected the 15min NLR timer). I did also mention these facts to your gang mates who I was having a chat with in your gang lobby. 

Unlucky as it is that many cops joined during your bank operation I fail to see from the evidence provided; that I would have joined purely for the gunfight, or that I would have had received this information from somewhere asking me to join. However if you redeem this kind of activity against the server rules, why does your own gang in its very rebel gang post redeem this activity as perk what you will receive when you are part of ascension:



Even tho as someone would have hopped on just because someone had informed them to do so in TS I would strongly depate of it being a rule-break. It is a known fact that in past many gangs, police and UNMC has been doing so. It is somewhat classed low and as you explained might tilt the balance of a gunfight upside down, but as far as people are not devoting them self only for the hopping into the gunfights there should be no issue with it. Taken into the consideration of the blanket bans in a past I expect admins to keep close eye on people just jumping on to shoot.

However lets depate around the so called rulebreak and take an example. We as police officer do ALOT of paperwork what is part of our role of a police. It is necessary to do as the police force is as big as it is. If we are on computer I would argue that me doing  paperwork is in a sense playing the game as it is part of my duties, however me sitting on the server would be taking a slot from a person who would want to play there. We also often are engaged in TS about other police stuff, helping other officers out, academy does their thing, I have NPAS etc. However me being active in TS and playing the game in a sense by doing the paper work or even training my self (flying, shooting, w/e) would be in a standby to join and assist fellow police officers incase of a bigger operations or in my case should they require  assets what are locked behind me in a police. There is slot limit for police for a reason and if you are doing a major operation, you should be able to take on agaist that theoretical max limit of polices or be ready to get doomed. 

Please do also take into account that sometimes when we are on TS, like I explained, we gather the patrol prior we log on. Thust sometimes you have full NCA,AR patrol or even full operation just hopping on at the same time. We don't honestly care if there is operation going already if that is the moment we want to go ingame, then I think we as much you are allowed to do so. Obviously gang hopping on the server does not have as much inpact as a specialized unit (ar example) patrol hopping on as they are fairly good with the game and have generally more skill compared to standard rebel. Also I do understand that if s2 is "emty" of cops and you have punch of people hopping in it might tilt the balance, if you are used to play with low amount of cops on.

I'm thankful that you have tackled this issue here, but I would have hoped more open discussion prior the report.  However i do understand the restrains of such a massive report and it is afterall your right to post it if you feel that server rules have been broken, even without resolving prior. For the future it would be beneficial for you, and the people involved to have the report to be dropped earlier so that people involved can have counter evidence easily accessible and fresh memories to provide about the situation where the issue lies. 

Sorry about my poor written English.

@Boston Broiler 

Can you tell me what rule the police broke ? 

And can you also tell me why you waited 3 days to make this report as is stated in the rules you have to make a report within 24 hours ?

I'm already banned so you might aswell remove me

For clarity to all. There was a lot of back door work done prior to this report going up. Police command were asked what should happen to players who do this as we were unaware of the sheer scale of metagaming occurring and they informed us that, quite rightly, the players involved should be banned no matter rank and if the evidence is strong enough.

Now I will not make the call on this one but if the OP and police command can maybe come to an arrangement that now that the scale of the issue has been highlighted within this report perhaps this could act as a warning to players who think this is a valid tactic for the future and that any future occurances will be dealt with harshly.

However that is down to the OP. If he feels like he would like this report to continue and dealt with from a staff member (probably a staff lead in this case) then so be it. 

I joined the server because I wanted to play the game, I did not get a message or anything else telling me about the H.M.. I also request some evidence of the metagame please, you are just showing that people are logging on, but you want to report us for metagaming. Therefore, you should be able to give us prove of it.

As this report was posted three days after the so called incident in which we wanted to play on the server, I unfortunately don't have any recordings of my POV as the recording software I use (Plays.TV) automatically deletes as new sessions are recorded, I find this rather unfair due to the fact I am defenseless now as I cannot provide anything to counter this. I hope I can explain as much as possible below.



As Daniel has said also what evidence do you have?, the video only shows people logging on over some time, there is no actual evidence provided that proves what your accusing us of. In my opinion I do not believe anyone could get a message to 20 players in that space of time informing them that a H.M treasury robbery was about to take place.

In fact my reasoning behind logging on was simply I had no played in a few hours as I was out, I had just came home from my training and seen a rather large number of officers in team speak so I joined in. I may add I was trying to connect to the server before this had even kicked off but could not as my ping was hitting 500 ms and higher. I was even kicked off during the H.M which can back my point up, I took a screenshot of the kick just in case someone tried accusing me of combat logging as I was taking shots at the time of the kick, but here is my screenshot.

By any chance you are confused by what I've said above what I am trying to say is I was attempting to connect to the server before the situation had kicked off but could not due to connection problems as my Irish internet is not prestige.



But in conclusion I did not join the server with the intent of attending a bank and logging off

Edit: 

In case the kick message screenshot isn't enough I've managed to get this screenshot from another officers point of view showing me getting kicked due to my wifi not meeting the servers requirements, hope this is enough to prove my internet was acting up all through the ordeal which prevented me from joining the server at first as I wanted to patrol. Apologies for the images looking so similar, don't be confused they're completely different views.



I'd also like to justify I was not on server 1 to begin with as I had just arrived home as stated in my paragraph a bit above, I'm sure any staff can clarify that also by checking the logs.

I just joined to play the game but in future I won't.

I assume now we need to check before logging on to see if there is an operation to not be accused of metagaming.

What a crazy world we live in...

Edit: After thinking about this stupid situation further, you're telling me that anyone that happens to be logging in at the time of a bank is now liable to be reported for metagaming with no conclusive evidence what so ever except a video of an AR patrol logging in + some other randomers? Does this include rebels logging before they start their bank? I'm sure they were asked 'wanna do a bank' in TS and then log in for the only reason to slap the charge on the bank with 0 RP.

So hold on. Is it not 'metagaming' for me to go ask a friend 'wanna patrol' as my actions out of game are making people log on. Is it not 'metagaming' to scroll down the list of cops and check there's barely any online, so you get all the gold in the bank.

It was only a few days ago Ascension were returning to the bank (actually could have been this bank) but nothing was done about it, and now we have a report here where no rules have been broken at all and we have the people in charge of this community actually supporting it? Its a fucking disgrace.

Further edit: From my TS chat logs you can clearly see I started an AR patrol at 22:16 and then joined the general operations at 22:43 so it took me 30 minutes to 'hop on'.

(This is SPC McCree - excuse the name, have no idea how to change it  ) Okay so the report is meta-gaming - Metagaming: Is any tactic or strategy used to gain information in roleplay, which the current player(s) shouldn't know inside roleplay. With this information, how can you possibly say we 'metagamed' you? You're point is invalid - you have your OWN gang members who their self - 'hop on' for banks ops AND also come back AFTER they have died!

Vladic Ka said:

For clarity to all. There was a lot of back door work done prior to this report going up. Police command were asked what should happen to players who do this as we were unaware of the sheer scale of metagaming occurring and they informed us that, quite rightly, the players involved should be banned no matter rank and if the evidence is strong enough.

Now I will not make the call on this one but if the OP and police command can maybe come to an arrangement that now that the scale of the issue has been highlighted within this report perhaps this could act as a warning to players who think this is a valid tactic for the future and that any future occurances will be dealt with harshly.

However that is down to the OP. If he feels like he would like this report to continue and dealt with from a staff member (probably a staff lead in this case) then so be it. 

Click to expand...

Hello there Vladic, 

Attached below and after speaking to everyone in the gang who was involved in this situation we would like to pursue this player report. Also, Ponty you state as quoted below:

'You did a bank on S2, one of the scummiest things a gang your size can do. Don't expect us to not start logging on to assist.'

From my perspective right there you have admitted to metagaming, you have just stated that you came on knowing that 'a gang your size' was doing the hm and as a result you logged on to assist.

We are not here for players to get banned and if you look in the player report section you will find 2/3 player reports that we have posted as 90% of the time we will resolve it. However, this is not the first time that this hop-on situation has occurred and we feel something should be done about it.

To those commenting saying where's the metagaming you arrive at the HM in no longer than a few minutes of logging into the server. Pairing that with the fact of you all log on just before and a bit after it starts I find it hard to assume that it's one big coincidence.

To those stating that it was a 'scummy thing you can do' we prefer not to get into gunfights were its 20v40 and the 40 cops get to come back after 15 minutes. No-one should be expected to have the ability to deal with that.

This will be my final reply to this player report as I can only expect more replies from cops insulting us or trying to derail the topic as shown below by saying we're the one who are 'breaking server rules'. If you feel this is as such please either talk to us on teamspeak or post a player report. This thread is in regard to your actions not ours.

angellfall said:

Unlucky as it is that many cops joined during your bank operation I fail to see from the evidence provided; that I would have joined purely for the gunfight, or that I would have had received this information from somewhere asking me to join. However if you redeem this kind of activity against the server rules, why does your own gang in its very rebel gang post redeem this activity as perk what you will receive when you are part of ascension:

Click to expand...

 

Ponty said:

You did a bank on S2, one of the scummiest things a gang your size can do. Don't expect us to not start logging on to assist.

You have 17-20 rebels robbing the HM, on SERVER 2. Against 11-12 cops, us "hopping on" isn't against any rules.

Click to expand...

 
 
 



Regards,

Boston

Boston Broiler said:

Regards,

Boston

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Well it is a good report isn't it?