Abusing any marked zones

[Niyorah]

(6.0.1) You must not abuse the boundaries of any marked zone on the map. Using the boundary to troll/taunt or temporarily gain protection is forbidden.

now this rules says you can't use a zone, that be red blue or green to gain temporarily protection  

So i think this situation falls under that (keep in mind i arrived late into the situation)

so a few police officers were chasing a pink ifirt and that ifrit fled into the red zone around rebel outpost - keep in mind the police officers had not initiated on the ifrit but had been chasing it for a long time 5min+ i think at least.

now i think they fleeing into the red zone is abusing the border for protection seeing we as police need authorization to enter a red zone (most rebels i assume knows this)

now for police, if i arrested and detained a rebel put him in my police car, and suddenly i see a lot armed rebels coming in on a hummingbird and they are armed to the teeth, common sense tells me they are here to rescue them. and lets say they are. but before they get to land and initiate i flee into lets say Kavala PD (Blue zone)  i should not be allowed to do that because that's using the blue zone for protection so i can process the guy i arrested with out having to worry about any friends trying to "jail break" him (side note: will that be added back?) 

now i think in neither scenario they should be allowed to flee into a marked zone because of said reasons.

but i do think that the police and rebels need to have at least tried to make attempts on initiation before you are not allowed to enter it.

or add a amend a rule too that if certain criteria have been met you are allowed to enter a blue zone to rescue a friend that is about to be sent to jail (can be rescinded if jail break is put back into place)

 

[Merky]

it doesn't matter, its not a safe zone its a kos zone

 

[Samatlewis]

The situation described with regards to the rebels going in to the red zone only affects you as an office because of INTERNAL police rules that are NOT enforced by server rules (unless this has changed..) Therefore, it’s not abuse in my eyes.

Whar criteria would you suggest? Putting in ‘criteria’ adds a lot of loopholes and for those that try to play on the edge, some grey areas.

When taking a rebel back to the blue zone, you still have to transport them to an actual prison, so they will have the opportunity to be broken out/rescued.

 

[Niyorah]

The situation described with regards to the rebels going in to the red zone only affects you as an office because of INTERNAL police rules that are NOT enforced by server rules (unless this has changed..) Therefore, it’s not abuse in my eyes.

Whar criteria would you suggest? Putting in ‘criteria’ adds a lot of loopholes and for those that try to play on the edge, some grey areas.

When taking a rebel back to the blue zone, you still have to transport them to an actual prison, so they will have the opportunity to be broken out/rescued.

no it doesn't only affect me as a police: scenario time  

me driving(as a rebel) past telos fuel, and i see someone robbing it, i pull up too it, and ask him why he is robbing the gas station, he replies either  with he needs to feed is family, or a wire is lose it's a 50/50% chance of either one

now i say i want to take him hostage and negotiate for my friends that is currently in police custody because they crashed their car in a police chase and was captured, but instead of being a nice guy and letting him self being taken hostage, he decided to run to his car and start driving, now i chase him hoping he is as bad a driver as my friends but sadly he manages to reach the red zone around rebel outpost, his reason for going there is simply because he can shot me  without any RP, and doesn't risk a potential scenario where he is taken hostage.

In my eyes that's  using a zone for protection as a rebel.

the the Criteria thingy i honestly must say i need to get back to this one - but yes there could potentially be some loopholes and if there is we all know people will use them, therefor i suggest that if some criteria were to be made, do a straw poll of for example  criteria's that has to be met and let the public decide which one to use.

and explicitly sate that if there are potential loop holes that anyone using it outside intended use / writing use will face punishment accordingly

but ill try and think of some criteria's that one would meet before entering a Blue zone to rescue a friend.

and to the last part there about transporting them to prison in all honesty we don't need to, we can give em a ticket and let them be on their way. and if we have evidence that said prisoner has friends set up at prison i've seen police officer just put them in a holding cell and let them serve their sentence there. (now this was back when i was a rebel and i can't remember who it was.) haven't noticed it as much lately but some use to do that because they can't' be bothered driving to prison simply. 

and yes i think that is unacceptable 

 

[Niyorah]

Whar criteria would you suggest? Putting in ‘criteria’ adds a lot of loopholes and for those that try to play on the edge, some grey areas.

Criteria to raid Blue zone

1. You cannot enter the blue zone to raid if 10 minutes have passed since the gunfight took place. 5 minutes if he gave himself up and no initiation was made. (the police shouldn’t be able to enter the blue zone until 5 minutes after the gunfight has ended, because they must secure the area and such therefore you will have about 5 minutes.
   
2. The person in custody is  vital to your rebel gang, meaning he is let’s say a Lieutenant within your gang - or even only generals (do a straw poll?)
   
3. You need to have a sufficient force - that would mean player count off 10 or more and a leader within the gang must be with you during this.
   
4. You must give the police a police dispatch a minimum 1minute (maybe 2? minutes ) before you actually raid it - for us to evacuate potential civilians that might be caught in the crossfire
   

would something like this potentially work? 

[SIZE=14.6667px]if people could try and find loopholes with it, it would be help to see if something like this is possible in the future.[/SIZE]

 

[Samatlewis]

You cannot enter the blue zone to raid if 10 minutes have passed since the gunfight took place. 5 minutes if he gave himself up and no initiation was made. (the police shouldn’t be able to enter the blue zone until 5 minutes after the gunfight has ended, because they must secure the area and such therefore you will have about 5 minutes.

“Raid” insinuates that the rules are pushing more for gunfights, the whole context of this part doesn’t hint in the way it could.

The person in custody is  vital to your rebel gang, meaning he is let’s say a Lieutenant within your gang - or even only generals (do a straw poll?)

This hints to every gang having the same structure, or is having to create a list of ranks that are equivalent.. You cannot rescue your recruit? Who classes as important/VIP?

You need to have a sufficient force - that would mean player count off 10 or more and a leader within the gang must be with you during this.

Again, doesn’t necessarily point towards roleplaying out a situation; more ‘you have to be able to be able to put a decent fight’.  Why does it matter if a gang leader is there? Are they solely responsible if shit goes wrong? Are we to pin the actions of those 9 other people on to them? Where would the staff be?

You must give the police a police dispatch a minimum 1minute (maybe 2? minutes ) before you actually raid it - for us to evacuate potential civilians that might be caught in the crossfire

In-game, you can’t really ‘evacuate’ a whole PD, especially Kavala if it’s choc-a-block. 1-2 mins would not be enough.

Everything I’ve stayed with regards to this has been negative, fair enough. I currently do not think that raising blue zones is a solution to anything and it will cause more problems than it benefit.

 

[M]

I agree with @Samatlewis just because your a small group of rebels doesn't mean that you should be restricted to doing something. It should be one rule for all or no rule for anybody 

 

[LONG BEARD]

Whether it's a hard written rule or not (which it isn't), IMO, running to the red zone whilst being pursued by cops is a very shitty thing to do and those doing it should be ashamed of themselves. A police chase is usually initiated under RP conditions, so fleeing to the 'no RP' red zone effectively says, we don't want to RP and that in my personal opinion is exceptionally poor considering this is an RP server. Worse, they do it because they know cops can't enter without permission and that permission isn't always granted, or sometimes it takes time to acquire. 

Those who are committed to RP, (everyone should be on this server) wouldn't even consider pulling such a shitty stunt. 

Sadly, and I've seen it myself several times, people do it. If they do, simply gain permission to enter, or wait till they leave. Thankfully the red circles are small in size. 

I'll get clarification from Police command, but my understanding is that the redzones are the circles, not the red line that crosses the map. 

 

[YoCo]

Whether it's a hard written rule or not (which it isn't), IMO, running to the red zone whilst being pursued by cops is a very shitty thing to do and those doing it should be ashamed of themselves. A police chase is usually initiated under RP conditions, so fleeing to the 'no RP' red zone effectively says, we don't want to RP and that in my personal opinion is exceptionally poor considering this is an RP server 

Maybe they just know the RP is going to be them getting arrested and they would rather not have their shit taken and sent to jail/pay a fine 

the red zone is quite far from any cities, so for a chase to lead there it has to be quite long drawn, if cops can’t intercept them before then. I feel like it is fair game as an ‘escape point’ otherwise the chase goes on until the suspect is caught. Then ends in a gunfight/arrest. 

 

[Niyorah]

“Raid” insinuates that the rules are pushing more for gunfights, the whole context of this part doesn’t hint in the way it could.

Okay let's not use the word raid, let's use rescue your friend but essentially you would be raiding it. 

This hints to every gang having the same structure, or is having to create a list of ranks that are equivalent.. You cannot rescue your recruit? Who classes as important/VIP?

Yepp, that's a problem, not every gang has a command structure to follow, and if this was implemented it wouldn't be fair towards them.

To waist valuable resources to rescue "only" a recruit might not be something a rebel group can afford - from an RP perspective. As we know most rebels are quite loaded with money.

Again, doesn’t necessarily point towards roleplaying out a situation; more ‘you have to be able to be able to put a decent fight’.  Why does it matter if a gang leader is there? Are they solely responsible if shit goes wrong? Are we to pin the actions of those 9 other people on to them? Where would the staff be?

seeing as they need to re initiate to rescue their friend,  they are more then welcome, and i would suggest to try and negotiate for him, seeing there might be civilians within the PD the police cannot protect if they show up in force, so it's in both the cops and rebels to try and negotiate this out. The reason i mentioned that a gang leader has to be present is simply so that the rescue attempt is organized and a gang leader is able to speak with authority in the negotiations. 

In-game, you can’t really ‘evacuate’ a whole PD, especially Kavala if it’s choc-a-block. 1-2 mins would not be enough.

Everything I’ve stayed with regards to this has been negative, fair enough. I currently do not think that raising blue zones is a solution to anything and it will cause more problems than it benefit.

yeah i know, but let's say 5 minutes, then we as police would have time to organize set up, call in for back up and we would never let the guy in custody go simply because we would have position / outnumber them most of the time if we are given a 5 minute warning

but yes, this situation would lead to more gunfight indeed, and yes it could be actually fairly easily exploited by rebels, simply get one to do a weed run stop for the police and boom, you can basically "rescue" him from the PD. so there are problems with it, and yeah it would more than likely promote more gunfights so i get why it would not be implemented, so now the problem comes back to using zones as protection. 

and i think the rule 6.0.1 needs to be redefined? because if it's rebel vs rebel and you flee into the red zone it really doesn't matter, but if police is chasing you, you do actually use it for protection, since we aren't allowed to follow, and in my eyes it doesn't matter if it's because of the handbook, whoever fled there, is using it for protection from the police, so in my eyes the server rule and what is laid out in the handbook contradict each other or it makes rebel's break a server rule simply because our handbook prevents us for entering it.  (and if i need to explain even more on why even a KOS can be used as a protection zone i'd be happy too)

And when it comes to blue zone when are the police in violation off 6.0.1? obviously during a gunfight if we decide to flee there, but there are many situations that can be defined as using it as protection but still it wont be against rules. 

(for example i arrest a dude robbing stadium fuel, i place him in my car and start driving towards Kavala PD and when pass kavala fuel i see some rebels there lurking about and a few guys in a prowler with weapons pointing out from all directions now these could just be guys robbing people in kavala, but i drive past and i see one running towards me blurting out some words, i was to far away to hear what he said, and the prowler then start to follow me but i can just drive into the PD and be safe using it as a zone, simply because that's where we process criminals and get them ready to be sent to jail)

and for a rules perspective i din't break any correct? because for all that i know they could have just wanted to offer me tea...

 

[Ant]

You need to have a sufficient force - that would mean player count off 10 or more and a leader within the gang must be with you during this.

With so many gangs allying up now this isn't really a hard criteria to face

Whether it's a hard written rule or not (which it isn't), IMO, running to the red zone whilst being pursued by cops is a very shitty thing to do and those doing it should be ashamed of themselves. A police chase is usually initiated under RP conditions, so fleeing to the 'no RP' red zone effectively says, we don't want to RP and that in my personal opinion is exceptionally poor considering this is an RP server. Worse, they do it because they know cops can't enter without permission and that permission isn't always granted, or sometimes it takes time to acquire. 

Those who are committed to RP, (everyone should be on this server) wouldn't even consider pulling such a shitty stunt. 

Sadly, and I've seen it myself several times, people do it. If they do, simply gain permission to enter, or wait till they leave. Thankfully the red circles are small in size. 

I'll get clarification from Police command, but my understanding is that the redzones are the circles, not the red line that crosses the map. 

I disagree - I like the idea that rebels have a safe haven from cops, somewhere even we won't go into to go after them; in RP the rebel area is a completely lawless land, even overrun by rebels you could say. When chasing them near the border, it's a cool aspect to have to say "We have to get them before they get to the border!".

 

[Niyorah]

With so many gangs allying up now this isn't really a hard criteria to face

I disagree - I like the idea that rebels have a safe haven from cops, somewhere even we won't go into to go after them; in RP the rebel area is a completely lawless land, even overrun by rebels you could say. When chasing them near the border, it's a cool aspect to have to say "We have to get them before they get to the border!".

yeah fair enough, but then the rule need to exempt red zone from 6.0.1 

 

[LONG BEARD]

I disagree - I like the idea that rebels have a safe haven from cops, somewhere even we won't go into to go after them; in RP the rebel area is a completely lawless land, even overrun by rebels you could say. When chasing them near the border, it's a cool aspect to have to say "We have to get them before they get to the border!".

That's not a bad perspective on it.