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" BodyCam " Cosmetic Attachment and Requirement

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Shepherd Kingston

A kite dancing in a hurricane.
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Brief Summary:
" BodyCam " Cosmetic Attachment and Requirement


Detailed Suggestion:
My suggestion is to implement a pysical clothing item with the apprecance of a Go Pro or " bodycam " currently people have body cams when it suits them, if they were to incriminate themselves then they dont happen to have one, if they can use it to their advantage then they will have one. 
You should need a pyshical bodycam or phone out in order to record a situation within roleplay and use said recording in roleplay. 

EUP Camera suggestion:
https://www.gta5-mods.com/player/gopro-hero-7-bodycam-eup

The Pros:

More fair, in order to record a situation the oposing party must be able to see the camera allowing that possibility.

The Cons:

Some people wont like the fact they will need to pysically have a body cam to record
 

Does this suggestion change balance on the server ?

Yes

 
+1 you don't not understand how many times this has ruined so many RP scenarios by someone saying I've got this on body cam and I got your ID and it's just like cry me a river, I would love for this to be a thing, to get rid of the whole Battle of the Report, now a days you are paranoid of role-playing because anything you do is screamed by a person saying body cam or reported

 
Great idea. Should be a piece of equipment given to police and a purchasable item for civilians if they wish to have one.

I think there should also be an indicator on the screen to show in a recording that said person has a bodycam equipped and active (similar to the padlock for a locked door), otherwise it may not be clear in the video that they have it running. What do you think?

 
Great idea. Should be a piece of equipment given to police and a purchasable item for civilians if they wish to have one.

I think there should also be an indicator on the screen to show in a recording that said person has a bodycam equipped and active (similar to the padlock for a locked door), otherwise it may not be clear in the video that they have it running. What do you think?
I use this in streams. An AXON-Bodycam display in the top right of the screen that shows date and recording time etc. If possible would maybe be a good idea to get this implemented into the bodycam suggestion 

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I use this in streams. An AXON-Bodycam display in the top right of the screen that shows date and recording time etc. If possible would maybe be a good idea to get this implemented into the bodycam suggestion 
image.png

I have this just in normal recordings.  not sure how easy is it to implament

 
Going a bit off topic but it was said before that the reason for backpacks and duffle-bags not having extra space is because everyone would wear them. It wouldn't make the character appear unique since everyone would be forced to wear the same thing for extra bag space. If this gets introduced will that not have the same effect if you see every average Andy carrying a bodycam? Even if this gets introduced I don't see it giving any less reason for the person to scream "I GOT IT ON BODYCAM". Same thing when you're recording something stupid IRL and the person screams "I GOT THAT ON VIDEO". 

 
Going a bit off topic but it was said before that the reason for backpacks and duffle-bags not having extra space is because everyone would wear them. It wouldn't make the character appear unique since everyone would be forced to wear the same thing for extra bag space. If this gets introduced will that not have the same effect if you see every average Andy carrying a bodycam? Even if this gets introduced I don't see it giving any less reason for the person to scream "I GOT IT ON BODYCAM". Same thing when you're recording something stupid IRL and the person screams "I GOT THAT ON VIDEO". 
Well I don't believe there is much stopping them doing that now either? I think the idea with this is that any old person who has Nvidia replay running or whatever it may be, cannot just hit save and claim to have a body cam. They have to actually be wearing one at the time in-game AND have the footage. So if people choose to buy them, they must also be able to "retrieve and provide the footage" from it which would make having the recording a requirement.

I think that's how I read things anyway, which would mean it can only be an improvement from an rp sense compared to the current body-cam situation. @Shepherd Kingston can clarify if I'm talking nonsense...

 
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You should need a pyshical bodycam or phone out in order to record a situation within roleplay and use said recording in roleplay.
Be careful what groundrules you establish, with this...

You may find, for example, that your own 'third-person' game-recording no longer becomes acceptable in-game as a roleplay element, and instead, that you are required to have first-person footage, deemed to be from your bodycam, as evidence. It cuts both ways...

Alternatively, you may see a situation where, if a situation cannot be viably roleplayed, using the game-screen recordings as some element of evidence, then the resolutions will cease to take place in RP... and will instead end up being handled on the forums or by staff as 'rulebreaches' rather than RP-able situations. This will doubtless result in some people being banned, rather than retrained or reined in, in the game.

IMHO we have to accept that in the context of a video-game where it is much harder than IRL to get recordings of things 'first person' or on phone cameras, etc, we need to incorporate some aspects of game-screen footage as 'roleplayable'. Ultimately it will come down to the courts to decide what is fair and what isn't, case by case.

What I do not want to see is a situation where the civilian (and that includes gang) population is somehow magically 'not allowed' to use the same facilities that the cops use, in order to prove a case of, for example, cop wrongdoing. Unlike IRL, people who have been run over by over-zealous cops using their vehicles as weapons against pedestrians, do not have wounds, broken legs, smashed pelvises, etc, to be able to provide as evidence in a court case or police complaint. They don't have torn clothing with cop BMW sump oil stains all over it. They don't necessarily have the testimony of 'locals' who would IRL most likely have stepped up to report their observations at the time (for good or bad).

The civilian terminology of referring to game-screen video as 'bodycam' makes me cringe as much as it does you, I'm sure... but the point is, it's a misnomer. Really, it's 'witness evidence' - it's a meta for the information gathered by locals, CCTV in the street, other people's phones as well as the player/character, and so on. It's **not** a bodycam, and it isn't a Go-Pro, per se, unless they actually have one - and I agree that it would be nice for those props to be included in the game **in the situations where we are referring to it as such**. But the game-screen video will always be here, and can (and should) still be used where necessary, for roleplay and for rulebreach detection. This will not change.

And as regards the point where a player doesn't offer up game-screen video that incriminates themselves, of course not! What do you expect? In this situation, unfortunately for the cops (but fortunately for the perp), there are clearly no witnesses coming forward, or there was no CCTV available - at least, none that the cops could lay hands on. Again, this cuts both ways. The player (as 'film director') gets to decide what bits of game footage to place 'into evidence in RP', and they cannot and should not be required to incriminate themselves in situations where cops don't have enough evidence to make a case. That goes for police too **unless they are under standing orders from their Command, to supply their bodycam footage at all times** - but if that is a requirement placed on cops, by their superiors, then that is the price of being a cop, and being tasked to uphold the law. There should be nothing on those cop bodycams/witness-CCTV-videos to incriminate the cops, after all, unless they are bent coppers. 😉

 
@TinyBigJacko

I completely agree that 3rd person footage should still be usable for majority of cases, at the end of the day 3rd/1st Person perspective whilst playing is a preference and nothing that should ever dictate the course of roleplay. 
 

As for player reports, I have no intention of suggesting that change, footage used in roleplay and footage used for reports are, and should always be completely different things.

There needs to be some form of identification that you are being recorded, across the board. 
 

Currently, if you want to use a photo that you captured in game, then you have to capture it with the ingame phone as this shows others that you are taking photos and gives an audio effect when the photo is taken, this allows players to prevent this and hide any potential evidence. 
 

For example, if a gang member pulls up on an different gang turf and holds up one of their oppos, and a civilian or undercover cop etc brings out their phone to “ record “ or “ photograph “ the crime, this allows the gang member or his associates to “ put that fucking phone away “ or rob him of his phone and delete the footage etc. 
 

Currently, the problem faced by both Civs and Police is no visual identification of someone recording, and therefore, no way to prevent it. 
 

 
So you're saying that people should only be able to rely on photographs or video captured with a phone or a camera prop (be it a body cam or a fucking great SLR) if they want to rely on those images during any sort of following RP?

Where does 'local witness' or CCTV evidence fit in to that paradigm, then? There has to be some way that people can (in some cases) rely on the evidence of third-parties (and I'm not just talking about human-player-character third-parties) to get some aspects of a roleplay encounter done.

I appreciate that there are sometimes difficulties sorting out which is which, and getting people to name them as such, and that's unfortunate.

But I do not agree with your assertion that you can always tell when someone is videoing you, or photographing you. IRL, that is simply not so. Sure, the game makes various noises for effect, but IRL these can be turned off; the same should theoretically be true in-game. More to the point, you never know who is watching, whether they're recording or not, and this is what the game-screen is meant to represent - the observations of non-player third parties.

You'll forgive me if I think that this is really just an attempt to create a situation where cops (or other groups who are not meant by faction-lore to act nefariously) can act with impunity anywhere in the island unless someone is seen to be recording on an in-game device. In other words, a way for cops to do what they want to someone, safe in the knowledge that this can't ever be proven.

In certain situations, this might indeed be the case already - for example, if you are out in the middle of the desert or up a mountain far, far away from humanity, then it's fairly likely that gamescreen video would not be considered to be the testimony of some little old curtain-twitcher round the corner, and the player using it would need to be quite inventive to get it accepted (by an impartial decider) as such. However, someone being beaten up by cops in the middle of Vespucchi Boulevard in broad daylight is very likely to have been observed by any number of locals living in their houses or passing by on foot or in cars. It would be ludicrous to think that such a beating would go unnoticed, and the perpetrator (cop or not) could go totally undetected and unpunished, with zero witnesses or recordings of any kind.

I could potentially see an agreement forthcoming that allowed inclusion of the bodycam prop, for a bit of heightened RP. But I cannot see it ever being agreed that this - and actual cameras or phones - must be the only accepted source of evidence in roleplay. If that were the case, we would require the thing to go full on for all parties - and then ONLY video shot from the first-person bodycam standpoint, or from first-person in-car dashcams, would be acceptable in any police case as evidence against a suspect. And I can foresee a situation where, if that was made a requirement, we'd soon enough be hearing from cops that they're sick of getting whacked over the head from behind while they're setting up their bodycam shots and looking first-person only, without their usual wrap-around third-person situational awareness. And then we'd be back to square one.

Nope. Third person awareness is a thing, whether we like it or not, and attempting to 'rule it out' simply because someone's not physically holding a camera, seems a bit cheap to me. The context is key to whether such information is sensible to allow to be used, and it already applies. I'm not going to agree to a situation that would basically allow a cop to beat an old man to death right outside a shoe shop in Vinewood, because they felt like it, and there were (apparently, by this 'rule') no witnesses. Nah. You wanna duff up an old man, you gotta politely convince him to get in your motor without raising lots of villager sus, and then drive him out to the desert and kneecap the bastard where only the rabbits and cougars bear witness. 😉

 
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All for adding it as an attachment for RP value however i don't think making it a requirement to be able to record is a good idea. Just because someone doesn't have a gopro strapped to them doesn't mean they aint recording you. It is easy enough to record on your phone and have it only peaking out your pocket or recording from somewhere else i just don't agree with that part of your suggestion.

 
You'll forgive me if I think that this is really just an attempt to create a situation where cops (or other groups who are not meant by faction-lore to act nefariously) can act with impunity anywhere in the island unless someone is seen to be recording on an in-game device. In other words, a way for cops to do what they want to someone, safe in the knowledge that this can't ever be proven.
From my personal point of view as a Judge, this was my biggest concern.

At the moment, for our cases (we normally hold at least 1 'big' case a week that's pre-planned), both sides have to disclose evidence, before the hearing, in the case file. One of the main reasons is that we discuss and decide what's admissible or not for debate in court.

Where does 'local witness' or CCTV evidence fit in to that paradigm, then? There has to be some way that people can (in some cases) rely on the evidence of third-parties (and I'm not just talking about human-player-character third-parties) to get some aspects of a roleplay encounter done.
So far, for example, we have been fine with evidence that is

  • From a police officer, medic or Gruppe6 member at any 'normal' situation as they would reasonably have the ability to record
  • From a civilian point of view we've had people roleplay


    CCTV from shops / restaurants / dealerships /  hospital / police stations (we've had solicitors write to shop owners, police etc for permission)
  • Dashcam footage when they are sat inside a car, or they are having a discussion in front of their car
  • Footage from a friend who may be watching from a distance as he could reasonably have had his phone out
  • Footage from Weazel News who were on scene



In certain situations, this might indeed be the case already - for example, if you are out in the middle of the desert or up a mountain far, far away from humanity, then it's fairly likely that gamescreen video would not be considered to be the testimony of some little old curtain-twitcher round the corner, and the player using it would need to be quite inventive to get it accepted (by an impartial decider) as such. 
We have also raised issues with footage from these sort of situations, where people magic up a CCTV camera at the top of Chiliad, or from being scammed in a dark alleyway somewhere. 

I think it's something that requires judgment and common sense for each scenario, and so trying to blanket evidence under physical body-cams only... would really harm civilians abilities to raise cases against organised groups. 

 
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+1 Had so many RP instances ruined by "i have this in 4k/bodycam" when theres little to do with it in the first place its kinda annoying from an RP stand point Great idea infairness hope it comes along nicely 

 
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