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Disallowing gang alliances

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Liam

Liam

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Gangs should not be making alliances to overpower the LSPS or bully other gangs, it makes no sense. Majority of the gangs on the server have been at war a fair few times then all of a sudden they're allied and dominate the server. It doesn't make sense in RP, it feels very unrealistic.

Gangs don't even care when the LSPS arrive on a situation, they continue shooting in their OWN personal car, screaming down the radio with no fear factor that they could be shot, caught and sentenced to life for numerous murders. In a real life scenario, most gangs would scatter as soon as they heard police arriving or seen them so that they aren't caught but the most I've heard when arriving is - 

"Police won't do shit, keep shooting"

In reality, a gang wouldn't mess with the police as they know that they'll just get fucked by the police. This also counts as locking down hospitals with their massive weapons on display, attacking a PD. Majority of the real life situations of police stations being attacked are either in movies in the US and IN THE US. We shouldn't make the police overpowered and I understand it is a game but gangs shouldn't treat police as vending machines nor as pets.

I have played both sides before anyone comes in here criticising that I only main Police, that would be wrong. I don't see the need for gangs to team up to overpower a gang or the Police. Gangs have a max cap of 25? I RARELY see 20 cops on at the one time. The fact that gangs are dominating the server and overpowering Police so that we aren't capable of doing anything is horrendous. It not only makes is extremely unfair but it doesn't give us the motivation to play.

I was told a few weeks ago that two gangs were fighting each other and as soon as Police arrived to you know POLICE THE SITUATION as that's what they do, these two gangs just stopped fighting each other and both started shooting the police, how does that make sense? It doesn't. Someone being married from a rival gang shouldn't just make all gang feuds end and all the history of these gangs fighting to just disappear, it cuts off even more RP.

Sure you could say some of these alliances came from a strong standpoint in RP such as two individuals from different gangs marrying each other in RP, well another suggestion could be actual server rules in place to stop gangs circumventing the Gang cap of 25 and not involving themselves in the other gangs feuds.

 
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+1 its no fun. It always ends messy. And not to mention the RP around it is usually poor af

 
This is a copy of my response to @Liamon Discord.

You cover a lot of good points:

"Majority of the gangs on the server have been at war a fair few times then all of a sudden they're allied and dominate the server. It doesn't make sense in RP, it feels very unrealistic."

- In reality, a gang wouldn't mess with police, since they know they'll get fucked by police. This also counts for locking down hospitals, attacking a PD, etc. I've only managed to find a few example of PDs getting attacked, one was from a guy in a van with fully automatic rifles, the rest was in relation to a different topic. This was however in the US, I've not managed to find anything in relation to the UK. I'm not saying, that we should make police overpowered, I'm far from that, but gangs shouldn't treat police like pets.


"I was told a few weeks ago that two gangs were fighting each other and as soon as Police arrived to you know POLICE THE SITUATION as that's what they do, these two gangs just stopped fighting each other and both started shooting the police, how does that make sense? It doesn't."

- I was directly involved in this. We had Grove and Vagos at war with each other. Then all of a sudden, they stop targeting each other, and starts to target police. Believe Bobby Delta posted a video of it in Police Firearms, with majority of the comments being negative.


"Sure you could say some of these alliances came from a strong standpoint in RP such as two individuals from different gangs marrying each other in RP"

- In reality, if someone married a person from another gang, I doubt it'll be a rivalling gang, since said person would be seen as a threat. So, if someone marries a person from a rival gang, give each a ultimatum.

This is my own opinion, and not one from a staff POV.

 
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+1. I think its okay to do business with other gangs and call it an alliance but when it comes to a fight and theres 3 different gangs in the same colour fighting it gets a bit of a joke.

Since we (apostles) and the Azteca’s made the Coalition which is now one entity, we basically had to say to each other past is the past (regarding relationships with other gangs). We were all really good friends in RP anyway so we decided to call it a day on our gangs and form the Coalition. 

 
I 100% agree with this, only in certain situations should 1 gang help another is when one gang is only 2/3 members and need a few extra, but 25+25 is an aids fest 

 
+ 1 I feel that the gangs are very separate entities with unique backgrounds that wouldn't make sense mixing in RP.

 
In my opinion, gangs who have previously together and then went on a war-mongering rampage have historically been filled with “frag kiddies” - ie people with no roleplaying prowess who frequently seek out a gunfight as their enjoyment. Whenever gangs seek out these activities constantly, the people that these activities appeal to will often actively try and join, further worsening the quality of roleplay on the server as a whole. 
 

Yes, we all enjoy the odd gunfight, however the rate at which they are occurring is alarming, and signifies the server heading down a slippery and irreversible slope into attracting a player base that prioritises gunfights over anything else. This community is still filled with exemplary roleplayers, a lot of whom are starting to be dragged down to the level of their gun loving peers. It’s time to try and stop this. 
 

For me, limiting gangs from allying is a good start, however it can not be the only measure put in place. Gang wars should be closely monitored by the staff and dev team, and if it is decided that the “reasons” for war are patchy at best, then the war is not allowed to happen. These wars, which have a significant impact on the server as a whole, should be ‘earned’ through months of quality roleplay and interaction between the opposing factions.

At the moment, wars are meaningless, and a lot of the server roll their eyes whenever they’re told that certain groups are “at war”. This is due to the fact most warring parties kiss and make up a short while later, and often you’ll even see them allying in the next war!

We’re here to roleplay, not “take over the city”. Gangs should be just that. Gangs.  Not a militia, and certainly not a group that would attempt to rival any government led peacekeeping forces.

The vast majority of gangs have lost most, if not all of their backstory. Maybe it is worth a sit down with all parties to create new lore, or Atleast decide what parts of the old lore to stick to. Gangs are soulless at the moment, and the only differentiating factor between them is the colours they wear. All behave the same. 
 

let’s get a bit of individuality back to these groups. 

 
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I absolutely agree alliances are fine for small situations but when it's used to just pure bully other gangs and even the police it becomes heavily toxic and the enjoyment begins to disappear. Street gangs would and should run at the sound of sirens, even if it was just two cop cars rolling up, just to not get caught and go to prison (i'd like to see far more arresting going on from police as well, my G6 is very lonely and it seems drug sellers are the only people going to jail - people with guns just have their weapons removed and released back in to the wild). Everyone in a gang has been guilty of joining alliances when it comes to wars and fighting and I think it should stop and situations like "i like this person so we are going to back this whole gang and become allys" is just mad. This is not Romeo and Juliet. That person would be seen as a traitor and no longer trustworthy. #

I think Liam covers most of the points needed and i think gang leads and gangs as a whole should think about their gang history. I remember when the gang update rolled out and folk stuck to their "lore" which can and will change over time as the RP evolves, but no gang backed eachother. Every gang stuck to their own business and followed their hatred for their rivals only and would not acknowledge the rest of the gang beef in the city. I remember Aztecas used to ride around Vagos areas in a few cars just causing beef with them and just around the corner you could hear the odd shooting from Ballas and Grove going at it. Now you just see 30 Hellions just stomping around and people just slagging eachothers mams while dancing their limp bodies until they "bleed out".

 
Liam said:
I was told a few weeks ago that two gangs were fighting each other and as soon as Police arrived to you know POLICE THE SITUATION as that's what they do, these two gangs just stopped fighting each other and both started shooting the police, how does that make sense? It doesn't. Someone being married from a rival gang shouldn't just make all gang feuds end and all the history of these gangs fighting to just disappear, it cuts off even more RP.
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I disagree with this one at least in my opinion it does make sense for 2 gangs to join up on police if they are fighting each other and police try to get involved but thats my 2 cents on it.

At the end of the day police is the common enemy even if these 2 gangs are fighting each other the police is their bigger enemy in general but i do agree that there shouldn't be joined alliances where if one gang gets involved the other one needs to go there to help instantly like they are just 1 big gang like for example the triads and ballas thing that has been happening for months now. (I am not mentioning the coelition for the simple fact that they reduced their numbers once they merged)

At the same time there is also something's that might be confusing with this because let's be honest some gangs start beef with one gang in one day and on the next one they already fighting another gang so how do those 2 gangs do now do they fight that same gang at diffrent times or something this is what i am confused about.

 
+1

At the minute all you see is 2 gangs log on, go on the same radio and go everywhere together and fully outnumber/overpower other gangs and the police 24/7 which should never really happen. For me at this point they might as well just merge. It just doesn't make sense for 2 gangs even that are allies to be so close to each other that they practically do everything together. Alliances shouldn't mean that you act as 1 gang with 2 different colours and I feel like if they want to do that then they should have to cut down numbers so they have 25 between both groups otherwise what is the point in having a gang member cap?

I think a healthy alternative could be implementing The Lost alliance rule for all gangs and not just the Lost. Although I feel like it will need to be a bit clearer on what a "temporary basis" actually is.

(G10.2) The Lost MC may form alliances with other gangs or individuals only on a temporary basis. Non-aggression pacts are allowed.

 
ConnorTheGreatt said:
In my opinion, gangs who have previously together and then went on a war-mongering rampage have historically been filled with “frag kiddies” - ie people with no roleplaying prowess who frequently seek out a gunfight as their enjoyment. Whenever gangs seek out these activities constantly, the people that these activities appeal to will often actively try and join, further worsening the quality of roleplay on the server as a whole. 
 

Yes, we all enjoy the odd gunfight, however the rate at which they are occurring is alarming, and signifies the server heading down a slippery and irreversible slope into attracting a player base that prioritises gunfights over anything else. This community is still filled with exemplary roleplayers, a lot of whom are starting to be dragged down to the level of their gun loving peers. It’s time to try and stop this. 
 

For me, limiting gangs from allying is a good start, however it can not be the only measure put in place. Gang wars should be closely monitored by the staff and dev team, and if it is decided that the “reasons” for war are patchy at best, then the war is not allowed to happen. These wars, which have a significant impact on the server as a whole, should be ‘earned’ through months of quality roleplay and interaction between the opposing factions.

At the moment, wars are meaningless, and a lot of the server roll their eyes whenever they’re told that certain groups are “at war”. This is due to the fact most warring parties kiss and make up a short while later, and often you’ll even see them allying in the next war!

We’re here to roleplay, not “take over the city”. Gangs should be just that. Gangs.  Not a militia, and certainly not a group that would attempt to rival any government led peacekeeping forces.

The vast majority of gangs have lost most, if not all of their backstory. Maybe it is worth a sit down with all parties to create new lore, or Atleast decide what parts of the old lore to stick to. Gangs are soulless at the moment, and the only differentiating factor between them is the colours they wear. All behave the same. 
 

let’s get a bit of individuality back to these groups. 
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I completly agree with this people these days start wars for the pettiest reason ever the only war recently that in my opinion had any reason to start was the one for drug prices after that it has been the smallest thing like car crashs, Logos, or even throwing back a middle finger.

At the same time i see why some gangs allied because tbh they were just being forced into wars so they united into it because some gangs start beef with one gang and the day after they start with another one so yhe ....

 
I don't think the gang alliance is a problem, but I do have issues with them working together. Either there should be a limit of how many people are allowed to be together, for example doing some sort of robbery at a store, bank and gas station. Additionally, the fact that 2 colonies are able to work together in such a manner that even the police can't do nothing may seem a bit unfair and unrealistic. Moreover, there should be criminal activities with a cap on how many people are allowed to be in it, and I also think that the police should always be able to have as many units as they want except chases, having 2 bikes 2 cars 1 helicopter won't wont really make sense to have in a chase.

somewhat of a +1

Also we need another GTA RP community meeting to address these such things.

 
Jack Mckenzie said:
+1

At the minute all you see is 2 gangs log on, go on the same radio and go everywhere together and fully outnumber/overpower other gangs and the police 24/7 which should never really happen. For me at this point they might as well just merge. It just doesn't make sense for 2 gangs even that are allies to be so close to each other that they practically do everything together. Alliances shouldn't mean that you act as 1 gang with 2 different colours and I feel like if they want to do that then they should have to cut down numbers so they have 25 between both groups otherwise what is the point in having a gang member cap?

I think a healthy alternative could be implementing The Lost alliance rule for all gangs and not just the Lost. Although I feel like it will need to be a bit clearer on what a "temporary basis" actually is.

(G10.2) The Lost MC may form alliances with other gangs or individuals only on a temporary basis. Non-aggression pacts are allowed.
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Yhe maybe the temporary basis thing could be if a gang started beef with 2 gangs for example in the same week and those 2 gangs align to overthrow that same gang atleast thats my opinion and after that the alliance is over

 
Snuffles said:
"I was told a few weeks ago that two gangs were fighting each other and as soon as Police arrived to you know POLICE THE SITUATION as that's what they do, these two gangs just stopped fighting each other and both started shooting the police, how does that make sense? It doesn't."

- I was directly involved in this. We had Grove and Vagos at war with each other. Then all of a sudden, they stop targeting each other, and starts to target police. Believe Bobby Delta posted a video of it in Police Firearms, with majority of the comments being negative.
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i was on a firearms ride along at the time. The whole time before they finally shot police they kept shouting "this doesnt include police leave" rp it involves us and then moan when we start taking them to hospital saying we baited the fight. Gangs seem to forget whay rp is when there is gang wars. Recently with 229 vs triad and ballas its been shit for both police and civi. I fot robbed as my civi for no reason but "we think your 229" with nothing to show. and as police had triads and ballas over 30 or 40 rob a officer because someone was voluntary turning their weapon in.

If you wanna fight with them make 1 gang. Thats the whole point of the gang cap to stop 30 gang members vs 6 firearms officers. not for a gang to spilt over 2 and never separate

 
Chilli said:
i as police had triads and ballas over 30 or 40 rob a officer because someone was voluntary turning their weapon in.
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This was ridiculous, gangs forcing themselves into a situation to rob and kill us for Police Issued weapons when the Lost MC Person was merely handing in a musket and a knife to the police, completely steam rolled all RP that we would've had from that guy to then be shot and robbed of everything 50 man deep in front of the entire police service in broad daylight.

 
-1, I really really fail to understand why this needs implementation, IRL gangs will ally over situations over countless different reasons. Wars, Businesses, Mutual Agreements. Taking this away from the city will just be the nail in the coffin for gang growth and gameplay.

 
-1

Its funny how most of the people that react here where all in the same spots. When they had there alliances and it went good for them you didn't hear them complain about it and now suddenly its a big problem.

 
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