Economy Feedback Thread (The 27/07/16 update)

[TinyBigJacko]

Tanoa Vault

Last night we robbed the Vault of Tanoa, we took all but 10 bars and we were in and out in less than 7 minutes. I feel as a rebel that is far 2 easy, yes its nice getting 75k worth of gold each but if there is no risk its kind of boring and overpowered.

One officer turned up as we were leaving in the Orca but only because we was across the way at the Prison doing RP, a second officer was a few hundred metres away but only because he was a few kms away at the time of the robbery.

The time it takes cops to gear for a Vault Operation then drive to the Vault we are in and out.

We flew to the south east gold buyer and cops had no chance to intercept us.

Police Response Time To Vault = 7-10 Minutes

Vault Robbery & Gold Sell = Under 15 Minutes

Solutions

Blasting Charge:  Increase timer to between 8-10mins, this will give cops at least time to respond.

Vault Rules: I believe the the rules for the Vault should differ from Altis in which as soon as the Blasting Charge has been placed negotiations are over, i think a negotiator should still be able to approach and either be told 1. We want to negotiate or 2. No we don't want to negotiate and then act accordingly.

Gold Buyer:  It is very hard for cops to get to the gold buyers without helicopter support, but not much can be changed until NPAS is implemented

Thanks for this @Scott1sh - and the hundred other bank robbers who have been bouncing this one at me today. All appreciated.

Long term plans are to do much more with the bankvault subgame, but I'll leave discussion of that to another time and place.

Short term fix - I have upped the demolition timer to 10mins from previous 5. We'll see whether that gives the cops time to get a wiggle on. If it needs more, we'll add it.

As for engagement rules, I leave that to whoever set them in the first place. TBH, I *hate* having to fall back on engagement rules because they are so tiresome, dead-handed, and generally a sign that something is wrong with core design... but they are a necessary evil. I didn't make the core design, so I feel no guilt there... but ultimately I'd like to make it all embedded so that the RoE are pretty feckin' obvious just by the situation! We'll see. It's a big nut to crack though, this one. Too many unpredictables (i.e random fucking humans doing stupid things) in the equation...

As for the gold-buyer, my personal preference would be to have the gold-buyer be smack dab in the middle of Georgetown, somewhere really open and obvious. It means that the crims would have a bit more of a thinking challenge ahead, rather than a race to the gold-buyer's place. Gold bars in Tanoa have no 'cool-off' - as far as I am concerned, a stolen gold bar that is embossed with the State Seal of Tanoa and is quite clearly nicked, even to the stupidest of high-street jewellers, has no business being 'cooled off' or 'unstolen' simply because some crook has hidden it in a car in a garage for three hours. Or even three weeks.

I'd prefer a situation where the crims decide whether to cash in the gold and split the money straight away, running the gauntlet of police, straight into the middle of town and a likely fiery end... or they go somewhere and lie low - perhaps splitting the gold bars up at that point, or maybe just squirrelling them away for a while somewhere together. Eventually, the time will come when they want to pull out the bars and take them to the gold-buyer's place. At the moment, it's quite obvious to all cops that if someone is heading to that island where the gold buyer lives, there is a 99% chance they are going there for one reason only, and can be ambushed quite easily (in theory... if they had the right airborne equipment, but that's another issue entirely).

However, if the gold has to be taken into town, it's harder for the cops to find reason to search, well, bloody everyone... because most of the civs will be going about their normal peaceful lives (as if). It'll be harder to locate the gold-carrying crim, unless he shows out. Meanwhile, for the crim, although it is technically 'less obvious' where he's going now, it's still going to be a bit of an arse-pucker to wander through the streets carrying half a ton of gold bars, at the mercy of any old ten-penny robber, or nosy cop, or even a good old-fashioned road-accident. 

IMHO, it also makes for Georgetown to simply be a busier place - the more endpoints that end there, the more people have reason to be there... and more people means more RP - whether chaos ensues or not, RP is what we want.

 

[Shalloa]

@TinyBigJacko 

I was online during the bank job and it toke us up to 35 min to get to the gold buyer at the southwest island. 

The moment we got the signal to the moment the explosives were plased the police force was still making there way to the HQ to gear up. 1 officer was close to the scene but he was unable to do anything as there was no one near him.

We had a small change to get to the vault but when a few officer got closer the helicopter toke of. 

We had to drive to the south island to get a boat out as they were flying over our heads. 

A other solution besides NPAS could be a MPU station in GT. 

I wanted to ask if the Gold reward is not to high? 75k is very much for 2 bars. Considering the economy on Tanoa they are very rich at this time.

@SGT Wasted @Scott1sh

And the other smurfs ( i believe it to be smurfs ) Well played..

 

[CI Wasted]

@SGT Shalloawe made off with 2 bars each. 8 members of the team all having 2 bars. 

37.5k x 2 Each = 75k

We made off with a total of 600k in less than 15 mins. 

 

[Jack D]

Somehow now at 1.8k with a drivers license and a copper license, yet I have no veichles. Also level 1 and about 20 percent left to get to level 2. How do I make money? And from 5k, there really isnt a good way to make money unless you have mates that you can put all your money together with and trust them. otherwsie I see no real way of making money solo - If I can be corrected on this, please give me a lsit of what I need to do, and how much it will cost in order. Also how long it will take to do each activity within that list.

 

[Kaostic]

in regards to copper, this was due to it being weight 1 earlier on, so many people abused it and only 1 or 2 people came and actually told us about it.

Sugar Cane > Tanoa Sugar > Sugar Export > Mangos > Mango Stall > Sugar Cane....

Do that until you can get a Copper Processing License (£3,100 I believe) then do Copper Mine > Copper Processing > Daltgreen > Copper Mine > Airport (ATM) > Copper Processing etc. until you can get a Hatchback (£5,000). Do Copper in your Hatchback until you get £8,000 for Diamond Processing License.

Do Diamonds until you get £12,500 for an Offroad. Diamonds until you get a Truck boxer (£36,000). Diamonds until you get a Zamak... etc.

 

[Shalloa]

@SGT Shalloawe made off with 2 bars each. 8 members of the team all having 2 bars. 

37.5k x 2 Each = 75k

We made off with a total of 600k in less than 15 mins. 

Was this 2 runs or 1.

If its 1 run im asking if it might be to high for the Tanoa economy.

If its 2 runs it might be reasonable..

 

[Jack D]

Sugar Cane > Tanoa Sugar > Sugar Export > Mangos > Mango Stall > Sugar Cane....

Do that until you can get a Copper Processing License (£3,100 I believe) then do Copper Mine > Copper Processing > Daltgreen > Copper Mine > Airport (ATM) > Copper Processing etc. until you can get a Hatchback (£5,000). Do Copper in your Hatchback until you get £8,000 for Diamond Processing License.

Do Diamonds until you get £12,500 for an Offroad. Diamonds until you get a Truck boxer (£36,000). Diamonds until you get a Zamak... etc.

I agree

 

[CI Wasted]

Was this 2 runs or 1.

If its 1 run im asking if it might be to high for the Tanoa economy.

If its 2 runs it might be reasonable..

1 run. 

Its not an awful lot per person if you look at what we could be making doing cocaine, with the same 8. Granted tho the Vault was fast, but when you have a lots of hours playing civ and level 50+ like i have managed, you will appreciate that 75k doesn't particularly feel like an over the top massive amount, after the amounts that i have already earned, spent, loaned, lost and found but its a decent amount and a fair one i feel. Its not too much and its not too small. It has already been dropped once from 40k to 37.5 per bar. 

 

[Shalloa]

@SGT Wasted 

Fair enough. It sounds like alot them but i can understand that at a higher level it might sound a reasonable amount.

 

[CI Wasted]

@SGT Wasted 

Fair enough. It sounds like alot them but i can understand that at a higher level it might sound a reasonable amount.

i would definitely like to see more police take their holiday and play tonoa as a civ/rebel its so so different. But it will give the off duty police a better insight into the economy like it has for me. i highly recommend police doing this   

 

[Shalloa]

@SGT Wasted il PM you as i dont want to spam this topic  

Im interested to hear more so il pm  

 

[CI Wasted]

As mentioned here,



The cigarette XP 'slightly' reduced. processing tobacco to dry it before this change provided 10 XP per unit of tobacco being dried, and now provides 1 XP per tobacco. It still takes the same amount of time to complete this run. After this you are required to process dry tobacco into cigarettes, this has received a tiny reduction and seems fair.

Mentioned in a previous post, tobacco was intended for higher level civilians and with the 90% xp reduction + time to process, sell and move vehicles around this route now doesn't seem to render you the money nor the XP gain for spending the time to complete it. This route as it is for anyone trying to gain Tanoa experience or money is extremely non-beneficial is every way.  

Comparing tobacco to Copper and Diamonds, which both in return are both much shorter journeys. Also Copper and Diamond provide decent XP and money. Copper still seems to the be material of choice for levelling up and money making, being the shortest and fastest to complete.

(All based on using a tempest covered truck)

Its possible to complete 1 Tobacco run in the same time as;

2 x Diamond runs

2 and a half - 3 x Copper runs

(numbers and XP il edit into the post once home from work)

It may also be an idea to be able to sell certain processed items (iron, copper, diamond, wood, cigarettes/Dry tobacco) and multiple locations similar to the drug dealers. 

Places like towns (Georgetown) Airports and Harbours for different prices. Getting some import / Export going on the Island. Also maybe some kind of random script events that might for example say (There is a ship leaving for Altis in the next 30 mins and Captain requires more cargo or a specific cargo with a better price or larger XP bonus)

The repair and fuel trucks could be nice to have on sale again and returned to the truck shop, as both of these vehicles have potential to help others out and about providing more interaction with other players and RP scenarios. Or even for the police to have access to, being able to provide support to civilians.

 

[Lincoln]

Feedback on planes:

The fuel consumption is extremely high right now. You get 4-5 minutes of flight time before needing to refuel, which is not possible as there is no plane refuelling stations. 

Would it be possible to add a couple of fuel stations at all of the airports where planes can easily drive around them without getting stuck? Also to increase fuel capacity so we can fly for a minimum of 20 minutes.

 

[Digs]

Feedback on Fishing:

I spent about three hours fishing with the 120hold 16K boat, the first trip out took me about 30 mins (including selling up) and netted me around £360 pounds, this was just filling the boat with everything I caught and taking it back to sell.

The next run took me around 45 mins and netted me about £450, this trip I thre away everything but Tuna, Shark and Mullet.

The final trip took around the same 45 mins and netted me about £480, this trip I threw everything away except Sarasa and Mullet as due to their size (1 and 2) they had a good re-turn of profit based on carry ability.

So I think Fishing really needs a balance pass, here's what I think:

For the amount of effort you put in and time you really need that return value to be above £1000 pounds (keep in mind this is the 16K boat), to achieve this i'd half the weight of everything and increase the payout of each fish by double.

Overall though I find it a very pleasant if somewhat lonely way to work 

 

[Cool]

What are the plans for the economy? The way I see it is that it is too hard to make money and that is very clear to see on the playercount. Is there plans to ease the economy to increase the playercount or will it stay like this? It gets boring very fast after doing 2 copper runs without meeting one person apart from your own gang. 

 

[Lincoln]

Feedback on Iron exp @Neo

IT gives the exact same amount as copper right now. Processing 12 of each gives 180 exp. Iron takes 30 seconds longer to run. We tested this by starting from the mines at the same time doing both different runs. From my understanding the iron exp was buffed? So my question is, is this the normal amount of exp or are we suppose to get more? 

 

[TinyBigJacko]

Feedback on Iron exp @Neo

IT gives the exact same amount as copper right now. Processing 12 of each gives 180 exp. Iron takes 30 seconds longer to run. We tested this by starting from the mines at the same time doing both different runs. From my understanding the iron exp was buffed? So my question is, is this the normal amount of exp or are we suppose to get more? 

It's not normal, @Lincoln.

Someone (who I shall not name for fear of embarrassing them - but I will just say 'it wasn't me!') did indeed add a new line in with a buffed version of iron, set at 20XP per chunk of ore processed.

However, they forgot to remove or comment-out the line above it, which still has iron set at 15XP per chunk, same as copper!

Because the whole thing is in a 'switch-case' statement, it'll basically just take the iron instruction that is higher up the list... so, effectively, nothing changed! Derp.

I'll let the person who changed it (and they know who they are) make the edit to put it right.

Thanks for the heads-up, @Lincoln- bear in mind though, it may be a while before our next release - we've got a whole host of changes in the current build feed, and they will take quite a lot of testing before they're safe to release. But they'll be worth waiting for... fuel-pumps at airports, dock ladder at Harcourt, cop NPC fixes at Harcourt... NPAS (yes), and the aforementioned changes to housebreaking, plus the return of locked doors at the Treasury. They include some rather deeply-rooted engine changes, so I need to be certain the build is solid before we let it loose, hence the likelihood of some delays.
 

 

[TrueWade_Gx]

i would say Economy on tanoa is lot better 

 

[Digs]

I've tried doing a few tobacco runs and they pay pretty well, about the same if a little better than copper for the amount of time taken, the only problem I've had is bug induced deaths,  out of about five runs I've been killed three times due to collision bugs with the boat.  

A full run takes almost an hour to do, so dying can be extremely frustrating.  

 

[Neo]

It's not normal, @Lincoln.

Someone (who I shall not name for fear of embarrassing them - but I will just say 'it wasn't me!') did indeed add a new line in with a buffed version of iron, set at 20XP per chunk of ore processed.

However, they forgot to remove or comment-out the line above it, which still has iron set at 15XP per chunk, same as copper!

Because the whole thing is in a 'switch-case' statement, it'll basically just take the iron instruction that is higher up the list... so, effectively, nothing changed! Derp.

I'll let the person who changed it (and they know who they are) make the edit to put it right.

Thanks for the heads-up, @Lincoln- bear in mind though, it may be a while before our next release - we've got a whole host of changes in the current build feed, and they will take quite a lot of testing before they're safe to release. But they'll be worth waiting for... fuel-pumps at airports, dock ladder at Harcourt, cop NPC fixes at Harcourt... NPAS (yes), and the aforementioned changes to housebreaking, plus the return of locked doors at the Treasury. They include some rather deeply-rooted engine changes, so I need to be certain the build is solid before we let it loose, hence the likelihood of some delays.
 

bwahahahahahahahaha....... I blame genesis...

I've tried doing a few tobacco runs and they pay pretty well, about the same if a little better than copper for the amount of time taken, the only problem I've had is bug induced deaths,  out of about five runs I've been killed three times due to collision bugs with the boat.  

A full run takes almost an hour to do, so dying can be extremely frustrating.  

This is an armor problem, all the new boats are.... crap....

tap a & d whilst driving a boat (over and over) and you are vertical....