TinyBigJacko
Management
Management
Dev Team
Los Santos Police Command
Los Santos NHS
Los Santos Firefighter
- Location
- Vinewood Casino Management Office
The reality is, we want as many people to donate as possible. If we beat the server goals, it provides us with the scope to do other things - add new servers, increase the head-count on the TS server, and also to stuff money away for a 'rainy-day' - the months in the future when maybe we don't have quite such a healthy donator-bank balance, and might have to reach into our own pockets to fund the server to keep it running.
Nobody profits from the donator money, and it is not a commercial enterprise.
And to expand on what Wilco said about times... I for one have worked EVERY DAY (bar 4) since joining the project on 20th March, from about 9am in the morning until (usually) about 3am next day - with usually no more than a couple of hours out for food, picking up the kids from school, etc. I'm lucky that I can afford to make this 'donation' of my time at the moment - but that's my choice, and I'm happy to do so. For now...
The thing is, when we give donators perks, it is really great to see them enjoying them. The perks are our way of saying 'thank you' for doing your bit and chipping in to safeguard the future of the server. They are meant to make you feel special; something that you can wear with pride, or drive around in and 'swank', to rub other people's noses in it a little bit and say "I'm a donator. I matter. I keep this server alive."
So it is really rather saddening when we see that *some* donators believe that for their one-off £10, they should get perks forever, until the end of time, and then give them away for in-game money, or even for nothing, so that other people can 'swank' and claim the kudos that rightly belongs to donators, without even paying a penny to help. To my mind, it devalues the contribution that 'genuine' donators make. It makes the donator club less exclusive, because people can sidestep the whole thing and just get stuff off a mate who donates. That's like borrowing someone's Remembrance Day red poppy, or blagging a Lifeboat-charity flag without putting anything in the collection pot.
I think truthfully, neither Wilco nor myself enjoy having to make 'rules' - because they require more work and enforcement-time, and it detracts from the cool things that we want to do with the server to move it forward and make it better. Adding any sort of extra 'housekeeping' is a pain in the ass, really.
But there *is* an issue with some donators giving stuff away to all and sundry; and some donators *have* complained that this undermines the contribution that they make. As it stood at the moment, Wilco can't really say 'stop it; it's against the rules', because in all honesty, we never envisaged a situation like this happening. So now - whether we actively enforce them all the time or not - we *do* need something that enables us to 'pull rank' and prevent (or at least curtail) this kind of thing happening again.
Certainly, in terms of uniforms, weapons, gear, etc - I think we all agree that 'no more giving away donator gear' is a given. So that will be a rule from here on.
As for vehicles, I will admit that I can see *some* situations where a donator who is running a fleet of vehicles - especially those that are involved in doing a job and earning him in-game money - is kind of a 'swank' in itself. As Bullitt said, vehicles cannot be 'transferred' in ownership; they always remain the property of the principle purchaser - so it's impossible to 'give' a vehicle away anyway. But I think we need to make a small distinction: if a donator is ON THE JOB - whether in that 'loaned' vehicle, or in a following vehicle, running the same trail, converting the same commodities into cash, or escorting it in a nearby helicopter or chase-car, then maybe - just maybe - it's a 'fair-enough' situation. The donator's effectively hiring some pleb to be his chauffeur, or his wheelman, and that's a bit of a swank in itself. I can take that on board.
But I think cases where a donator simply acts as 'garage-man' - pulling vehicles out of his garage and then giving them to all-comers - whether for cash or not - and then just letting those drivers whizz off to the four corners of the map - well, that for me is a step too far. He's just abusing his donator perks, to my mind, then. What's your opinion?
Someone said 'what if my vehicle gets stolen? will I be banned then?' - no, of course not. The vehicle MIGHT be deleted if it's found in the wrong hands, but usually this will not be done 'live' anyway. We'd make some investigations before banning any donator, and usually that donator will tell us the story of what happened. In any case, the big offenders are easy to spot; they leave a trail of 'lent' vehicles and given-away gear, and most often, the receiving party will quite happily grass on the donator that gave them the kit in the first place (no honour among thieves - lol). Like with most things, we don't WANT to have to be doing database-trawls and regular culls and ban-fests; it's counterproductive, and not particularly enjoyable for the admins, and it wastes a fuck-ton of time too, tbh.
But we do want it to be known that we reserve the RIGHT to slap down abusers who are CLEARLY abusing the prks and making a mockery of every other donators fine, much-loved, totally-essential, and massively-important contribution. We *love* our genuine donators. That's why we give them extra toys. It's not a 'trade' - it's a 'thank you'. It saddens our hearts when we see that some people care so little about the principle of donating, that they just want toys to give away to other people who don't give a toss about donating either. Surely, as a donator yourself, you can see how that renders your own donation and thank-you perk a little less valuable, if some other bugger can get the same perk simply because he knows some twat who put a tenner into the pot ONE DAY, and never did anything else, ever again, to help the server - apart from throw perks to the non-donators all day.
Someone also mentioned 'I donated, but I can't get on the server.' In an ideal world, we'd mark your GUID into Battleye Extend Controls and it would auto-kick some recent-joiner or lobby-lurker in order to let you on. Sadly, we're having an extended problem with BEC, and the damn thing is resisting all efforts to get it working at the same time as we have the main Battleye filters on. We don't know why. I've invested DAYS trying to get it going again, and still haven't given up. But in the meantime, all you can do is look around for an admin, and ask for a slot... if we can find someone sensible to bounce, we'll do so, but it's not guaranteed. Once again, it's because we appreciate donators that we'd like to do that for them, where it's possible.
Finally. I am utterly sick of hearing some people whine about things like 'well, if I can't do this or that, then I'm not going to donate' or 'I was going to donate but then something happened with the rules, the items, a player, the weather, the map, and I decided not to'. Please - don't believe for one second that we care about what MIGHT have been. If you donate, we'll listen to you. If you prick-tease and continually dangle the prospect of your possible, maybe, perhaps donation out like a carrot in front of a donkey, just be sure that we don't give you ANY credibility at all, if this continues past the first moan. Real donators just donate - and then involve themselves in the discussions to improve the server thereafter. Cock-teasers sit on the fence, whining about things being 'worth' something, and never put their hands in their pockets. We *all* know how they are perceived, when the chips are down. So, please understand that it is the DONATORS we listen to, first and foremost... not the 'WOULD-BE DONATORS' who've stayed in that 'WOULD-BE-BUT-NEVER-HAVE' camp for months on end. Those guys are not worth the froth off my piss.
To the rest of you... keep talking. We are *not* trying to fuck anyone over, and we genuinely want everybody to be happy. And it is precisely because one or two of you have quietly voiced concerns about 'donator-kit' being trotted about by non-donator players routinely, and the fact that it devalues your own contribution, that we have even considered tightening up the rules to at least ALLOW us the means to stop it, sometimes. I think there is a sensible way forward - but maybe some of you need to consider the big picture, and perhaps agree that if you're lending out vehicles, you need to be 'part' of what's going on with them, and 'answerable' for those teams driving your stuff, so that it really does look like you're 'controlling' their use, rather than just giving shit away. Make sense? I don't think it's too much to ask, really, in the grand scheme of things... especially if it means you'll keep getting new exclusive things to play with in the future, as a result.
Nobody profits from the donator money, and it is not a commercial enterprise.
And to expand on what Wilco said about times... I for one have worked EVERY DAY (bar 4) since joining the project on 20th March, from about 9am in the morning until (usually) about 3am next day - with usually no more than a couple of hours out for food, picking up the kids from school, etc. I'm lucky that I can afford to make this 'donation' of my time at the moment - but that's my choice, and I'm happy to do so. For now...
The thing is, when we give donators perks, it is really great to see them enjoying them. The perks are our way of saying 'thank you' for doing your bit and chipping in to safeguard the future of the server. They are meant to make you feel special; something that you can wear with pride, or drive around in and 'swank', to rub other people's noses in it a little bit and say "I'm a donator. I matter. I keep this server alive."
So it is really rather saddening when we see that *some* donators believe that for their one-off £10, they should get perks forever, until the end of time, and then give them away for in-game money, or even for nothing, so that other people can 'swank' and claim the kudos that rightly belongs to donators, without even paying a penny to help. To my mind, it devalues the contribution that 'genuine' donators make. It makes the donator club less exclusive, because people can sidestep the whole thing and just get stuff off a mate who donates. That's like borrowing someone's Remembrance Day red poppy, or blagging a Lifeboat-charity flag without putting anything in the collection pot.
I think truthfully, neither Wilco nor myself enjoy having to make 'rules' - because they require more work and enforcement-time, and it detracts from the cool things that we want to do with the server to move it forward and make it better. Adding any sort of extra 'housekeeping' is a pain in the ass, really.
But there *is* an issue with some donators giving stuff away to all and sundry; and some donators *have* complained that this undermines the contribution that they make. As it stood at the moment, Wilco can't really say 'stop it; it's against the rules', because in all honesty, we never envisaged a situation like this happening. So now - whether we actively enforce them all the time or not - we *do* need something that enables us to 'pull rank' and prevent (or at least curtail) this kind of thing happening again.
Certainly, in terms of uniforms, weapons, gear, etc - I think we all agree that 'no more giving away donator gear' is a given. So that will be a rule from here on.
As for vehicles, I will admit that I can see *some* situations where a donator who is running a fleet of vehicles - especially those that are involved in doing a job and earning him in-game money - is kind of a 'swank' in itself. As Bullitt said, vehicles cannot be 'transferred' in ownership; they always remain the property of the principle purchaser - so it's impossible to 'give' a vehicle away anyway. But I think we need to make a small distinction: if a donator is ON THE JOB - whether in that 'loaned' vehicle, or in a following vehicle, running the same trail, converting the same commodities into cash, or escorting it in a nearby helicopter or chase-car, then maybe - just maybe - it's a 'fair-enough' situation. The donator's effectively hiring some pleb to be his chauffeur, or his wheelman, and that's a bit of a swank in itself. I can take that on board.
But I think cases where a donator simply acts as 'garage-man' - pulling vehicles out of his garage and then giving them to all-comers - whether for cash or not - and then just letting those drivers whizz off to the four corners of the map - well, that for me is a step too far. He's just abusing his donator perks, to my mind, then. What's your opinion?
Someone said 'what if my vehicle gets stolen? will I be banned then?' - no, of course not. The vehicle MIGHT be deleted if it's found in the wrong hands, but usually this will not be done 'live' anyway. We'd make some investigations before banning any donator, and usually that donator will tell us the story of what happened. In any case, the big offenders are easy to spot; they leave a trail of 'lent' vehicles and given-away gear, and most often, the receiving party will quite happily grass on the donator that gave them the kit in the first place (no honour among thieves - lol). Like with most things, we don't WANT to have to be doing database-trawls and regular culls and ban-fests; it's counterproductive, and not particularly enjoyable for the admins, and it wastes a fuck-ton of time too, tbh.
But we do want it to be known that we reserve the RIGHT to slap down abusers who are CLEARLY abusing the prks and making a mockery of every other donators fine, much-loved, totally-essential, and massively-important contribution. We *love* our genuine donators. That's why we give them extra toys. It's not a 'trade' - it's a 'thank you'. It saddens our hearts when we see that some people care so little about the principle of donating, that they just want toys to give away to other people who don't give a toss about donating either. Surely, as a donator yourself, you can see how that renders your own donation and thank-you perk a little less valuable, if some other bugger can get the same perk simply because he knows some twat who put a tenner into the pot ONE DAY, and never did anything else, ever again, to help the server - apart from throw perks to the non-donators all day.
Someone also mentioned 'I donated, but I can't get on the server.' In an ideal world, we'd mark your GUID into Battleye Extend Controls and it would auto-kick some recent-joiner or lobby-lurker in order to let you on. Sadly, we're having an extended problem with BEC, and the damn thing is resisting all efforts to get it working at the same time as we have the main Battleye filters on. We don't know why. I've invested DAYS trying to get it going again, and still haven't given up. But in the meantime, all you can do is look around for an admin, and ask for a slot... if we can find someone sensible to bounce, we'll do so, but it's not guaranteed. Once again, it's because we appreciate donators that we'd like to do that for them, where it's possible.
Finally. I am utterly sick of hearing some people whine about things like 'well, if I can't do this or that, then I'm not going to donate' or 'I was going to donate but then something happened with the rules, the items, a player, the weather, the map, and I decided not to'. Please - don't believe for one second that we care about what MIGHT have been. If you donate, we'll listen to you. If you prick-tease and continually dangle the prospect of your possible, maybe, perhaps donation out like a carrot in front of a donkey, just be sure that we don't give you ANY credibility at all, if this continues past the first moan. Real donators just donate - and then involve themselves in the discussions to improve the server thereafter. Cock-teasers sit on the fence, whining about things being 'worth' something, and never put their hands in their pockets. We *all* know how they are perceived, when the chips are down. So, please understand that it is the DONATORS we listen to, first and foremost... not the 'WOULD-BE DONATORS' who've stayed in that 'WOULD-BE-BUT-NEVER-HAVE' camp for months on end. Those guys are not worth the froth off my piss.
To the rest of you... keep talking. We are *not* trying to fuck anyone over, and we genuinely want everybody to be happy. And it is precisely because one or two of you have quietly voiced concerns about 'donator-kit' being trotted about by non-donator players routinely, and the fact that it devalues your own contribution, that we have even considered tightening up the rules to at least ALLOW us the means to stop it, sometimes. I think there is a sensible way forward - but maybe some of you need to consider the big picture, and perhaps agree that if you're lending out vehicles, you need to be 'part' of what's going on with them, and 'answerable' for those teams driving your stuff, so that it really does look like you're 'controlling' their use, rather than just giving shit away. Make sense? I don't think it's too much to ask, really, in the grand scheme of things... especially if it means you'll keep getting new exclusive things to play with in the future, as a result.
Last edited by a moderator:
