Remove Armoured Vehicles

[Louis]

Brief Summary:

Remove all bulletproof vehicles and also vehicles that can be made bulletproof through Los Santos customs/Benny's. 

Detailed Suggestion:

Firstly I am bring this point up from the perspective of a police officer on the server. 

So at the moment the main vehicle that is used is the XLS Armoured which is fully bulletproof and takes a large amount of ammo you penetrate. Now at the moment these cars are used by the street gangs on the server and other members of the city. If a gun fight breaks out these vehicles are used because of their advantages causing a big problem for the police as we don't have a counter armoured vehicle to attempt to stop the armoured vehicles being used.
Also I don't understand why a street gang would have armoured vehicles in the first place as they seems very military and not for drug selling gangs. But I maybe wrong. 

There are also other vehicles that are being used such as the Riata which can be fitted with a box on the back bed which is fully bulletproof from the back but when in the vehicle you can shoot backwards. This is the vehicle https://gta.fandom.com/wiki/Riata

Next is the Desert Raid. Like the Riata it can be shot out of the back and it is fully bulletproof from the back giving the persons in side a very big advantage. This is the vehicle https://gta.fandom.com/wiki/Desert_Raid

You also have vehicles like the Reaper. These can also be shot out of the back and it is fully bulletproof from the back. This is the car https://gta.fandom.com/wiki/Reaper
Like this sports/super car the are many others that can do the same.

So I have a few Ideas on how is could be changed:

1. All Armoured vehicles are removed and people are compensated for the price they paid.
2. The bulletproof vehicles stay and police are given an armoured vehicle to combat the armoured vehicles on the server.
3. The ability to shoot backwards out of cars is removed. (This would combat the issues with the vehicles bulletproof from just the back.)

If you have any other suggestion please comment them.

(These pros and cons are a list that fit some but not all of the 3 suggestions I have listed above)
The Pros:

Adds balance to the server.

More realistic gang play.

The Cons:

Non

Does this suggestion change balance on the server ?

Yes

 

[Delta]

+1

Dont see why 1st person shooting from cars was removed, solved so many of these issues, especially when combined with tinted windows (bugged import car glass)

 

[JaffaBenitez]

The cars arent bulletproof you just have to hit your shots at the windows. Im sure there is alot of cops with ARs and SMGs who could easily shoot out the windows if they aimed for them. Police have so many ways to combat them but they dont seem to want to actually take the time out of their days to work it out

 

[Alesia]

As an owner of a desert raid, I do agree that shooting out of the back is a bullshit move, but there are 100 ways to disable the raid and a lot of the options don't even include shooting. Once the riad is flipped, it starts smoking within seconds and after a few minutes you're done. The windows are not bulletproof of this, and my friends tested this out on other servers, with enough distance, or have a sniper in a helicopter, you can easily onetap the driver out of the car, but you need to be a good shot. The side windows are harder to hit through, but still possible.

As of the Armored XLS, which we also tested on gta online, it took us 13-16 bullets from an assault rifle to break any window. Besides that it took us around 9-10 shotgun shells to go through a window, so for rebels it ain't that hard either if you know how to shoot straight. For pistol rounds, it took us around 16-19 bullets to break the windows. So it isn't fully bulletproof, the windows are heavily bullet resistant. So yes, it is hard for the regular old response officer to combat this as you'll need 2 magazines mag dumped into the windows, but for an AFO or higher, it won't even be 1 magazine of your SMG/AR to make an opening.

I do agree however that police should have a counterpart of this, but I have a feeling this would go straight to firearms & normal response officers won't have a chance on driving this then.

 

[ufff]

The thing is the second someone shoots out of an armoured vehicle it pops the driver side window so I mean all you really need to do is have someone shoot them in the face? With the sheer amount of cops surely, surely someone can come up with the strategy to pull that off between the 10/15 of you that normally patrol as firearms? 

Honestly, me personally i'm totally down to give the Police 1 Single Armoured either XLS or Baller and you'll see how easily gangs combat that car and then maybe you'll learn a thing or two. Most gangs only have 1 maybe 2 at a push so that's why i'd only want the police to have 1 as it'd get a bit out of hand when every firearms officer is rolling in one. 

 

[adaco]

 Cops with ARs and SMGs who could easily shoot out the windows if they aimed for them. 

but for an AFO or higher, it won't even be 1 magazine of your SMG/AR to make an opening.

Most of the time when coming up against a XLS armoured, it is being used to ram police cars etc. With that being said, we cannot use our ARs or SMGs when inside of a vehicle and therefore, we cannot easily shoot the windows out. Now the counter argument to that would be, use your pistols. We do, although when the driver of the XLS is zig-zagging around the road like a tit, it makes it hard to land your shots. I have experienced the XLS armoured being used against myself both on as cop and as civ, and there is little to nothing you can do about it. Also, it is rare that you will be on foot when the XLS is being used against you. 

Police have so many ways to combat them but they dont seem to want to actually take the time out of their days to work it out

We have little to no ways to combat the XLS Armoured in particular currently. The most we can do is shoot and pray. There have been situations that have occurred recently involving myself where people inside the XLS have started firing Uzis out of the back window at police. The back window did not break when the passengers shot from inside, and therefore their shots where going through to us, but ours where not going through to them leading to us getting shot while they were completely safe. This leads me on to talk about the use of tactical options like tactical contact against the XLS armoured in particular. As just mentioned, from personal experiences passengers can shoot out from inside while the back window will remain functional and protect those inside, and therefore if we attempt to get close to perform these tactical options, we will have already been shot out of our vehicle. Now if we're lucky, we may be able to spin the vehicle out, and maybe at this point, the windows may brake, making it a fair fight. Overall, the only options we have against these vehicles currently is either 1. Spray & Pray, 2. Spin the vehicle out via Tactical Contact or .3 Hope the driver crashes himself. Like mentioned by Louis, if the police had a counter to this, it would iron this problem out.

Once the riad is flipped, it starts smoking within seconds and after a few minutes you're done. The windows are not bulletproof 

Like Louis mentioned, there is a certain mod at LS customs for the Riata which essentially extends the roof of the Riata over the back. This removes the open back section of the Riata and adds another back/side window(s). Another personal experience, this one involving the Riata. Police began pursuing a Riata with this closed roof-back mod, and moments into the pursuit the driver began shooting out the back of his vehicle. Multiple firearms officers returned the fire at the back of the vehicle, and to no effect, we took out its tires until it crashed. After it crashed, the driver was dealt with accordingly and myself and @ConnorTheGreattwere both confused as to why our shots weren't hitting the driver. We then tested the Riata by shooting rounds into the back window, and to our surprise, it was completely bulletproof from the back, almost like a solid metal sheet.

To finish this off, I don't believe that its the vehicles themselves, I believe it is the person behind the wheel misusing them. Both @JaffaBenitez& @Kseniyamention good statistics about how many rounds the bullet resistant windows can take, but when the armoured vehicles are being used to ram cars, knock people of bikes & run people over, there is nothing the victim of the armoured vehicles can to do counter it and the statistics presented almost become irrelevant in most situations where the armoured vehicles are present. I don't believe the armoured vehicles should be removed but I do believe they are something to be looked into

 

[Shepherd Kingston]

Personally I think that you should be allowed vehicles like the XLS on the server but they count as an illegal vehicle, perhaps also an avenue for a backstreet car dealer? And if police get control of the vehicle they have the power to destroy it permanently, this would stop people from always using them for anything and everything but still make it an option for something as big as pacific standard or a large attack on another gang or something. 
 

as for vanilla gta vehicles that you can shoot out backwards but people can’t shoot through causing the “ reverse meta “ in fights is ridiculous when, in my opinion, likely one that will be largely disagreed with I expect by the people doing it, is simply exploiting the mechanic of the game and using it for an advantage, people know full well they can’t be killed and the massive advantage it gives and that is why so many people do it. 
 

I don’t think you should restrict shooting backwards in vehicles but abusing the mechanic should be considered exploiting imo

- in terms of getting a armoured vehicle for police I am heavily against, I wouldn’t want to see GTA turn into something similar on Altis with Hunters/Ifrits

 

[JaffaBenitez]

All I will say to further add to this is @Shepherd Kingstonused an armoured car against me on his cop the other day and I showed him how easy it was to get the driver out of the vehicle. Its all about taking time to learn about a vehicle and how is disable them 

 

[Neb]

Personally i feel like there is some issues however personally i fell like the price definitely removes some of the issue of a epidemic of armoured cars around the city as only the wealthy or a Gang Can Get one meaning that u wont see hobos flying around in them but also as far as the police are concerned i Feel like if the police stopped crying so much about these cars and tried to learn how to take these down it wouldnt be such a issue because they are not tanks they can be very quickly stopped if u know what to do.

 

[Ponty]

The majority of your post is sound, i.e. "Police should learn how to combat this" and where you show understanding.
However, stating;

i Feel like if the police stopped crying

Just comes across poorly, we have a problem with something and we are raising it in the appropriate forum. Imagine if we said to criminals "if gangs stopped crying and learn how to be smarter when trying to commit crime" when challenged with prison times, there would be uproar about what we are saying.

There is a clear unbalance with certain vehicles and it needs to be reviewed, this is the best way to do so, public forum with developers and staff able to provide input

 

[Stealthee]

Constant back and forth on remove, don't remove, remove, don't remove.

My main concern is that as a "gang" we paid a lot and grinded a lot for the vehicles we have in our garages, a lot of negotiations go down with vehicles (especially the rare ones) these armoured cars aren't for sale and by a removal of all, this means a removal for all those legal Jobs who might need them, those who just want to roleplay as a minister in a armoured car etc.

Not once have I seen actual discussion from the police on how to counter them or "alright lads, let's take one down the docks like the gangs do and shoot fuck out of it to find weak points and how to deal with them". Every instance of "oh it is impossible to shoot" we have taken it for a closer look and no car is impossible to shoot, but if you are just randomly shooting you might as well shoot at a wall, stop spraying stuff and expecting the same results as the past 3 times, try a new tactic.

There has been a single instance of where police command has raised the question to us and opinions. He was given the response and what police could do to counter armoured cars etc if they are being used in illegal activity.

Vehicles are a big thing in GTA, take some time to learn how the different categories work, there is always a counter and for the police they have the permission and resources to deal with any major issue cars.

Locked and rejected.

Ps written on my phone