Report a Player - CI R. Strauss - VDM (Report Rejected)

[Kenway]

Your In-game name

Tiger

Name of the player(s) you are reporting

CI R. Strauss

Date of the incident

17/03/18

Time of the incident (GMT)

1510

What best describes this incident ?

VDM

Which server did the incident take place on

Server 1

Please (in detail) describe the incident

While trying to flee from a police pursuit, a officer driving a police hatchback rams me (VDM driver: Ronald Strauss) making my truck flip and take advantage of that to initiate on me(unknown because he didnt came to liason and didnt claim that he did it).

Link to any evidence (Youtube/Screenshot)

https://plays.tv/video/5aad33f5187625af75/-
This report is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth!

Yes

You tried to resolve the situation with the player(s) before reporting

Yes

This is not a revenge report (Abuse will lead to forum/community bans)

Yes

 

[Ronald Strauss]

Hello, Tiger and Staff member​

I will be providing some footage of my 'Bodycam' during this pursuit. The first short clip was earlier during the pursuit were the suspect (Tiger) suddenly swerved to the left almost driving into my Hatchback. The second clip will be footage of my perspective during the situation were the Police vehicle collided with the HEMMT Boxtruck.

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Alright,

1.   In the clip named 'Report Evidence 1' you can clearly see that I was driving on the left-side of the vehicle, when the suspect suddenly pulled to the left, almost causing an accident. However due to my quick response as a trained RTU Driver I was able to direct my vehicle away from impact. 

2.   In the clip named 'Report Evidence 2' you can clearly see that I was driving in a straight line (when possible) avoiding all objects within my path, due to this pursuit being Off-Road. The HEMMT Boxtruck was far away from my Police vehicle when I decided my route through this obstacle course. I spotted a straight path running all the way up to Agios and decided to take that path which had Cobblestone wall left and right of it. I wasn't able to turn left nor right, because my Hatchback isn't able to drive over those walls, So I kept on going straight and then suddenly the trucked pulls into the frame and collides with the back of my vehicle. You had enough room to the right of your truck, however you still decided to go straight into my Police vehicle, when you can clearly seen on your video and my video that I had nowhere to go.

3.   After watching the footage provided by Tiger, I also noticed his Game was running in low frames? Because his video isn't running smoothly?

4.   "Making my truck flip and take advantage of that to initiate on me (unknown because he didn't came to Liaison room and didn't claim that he did it)" I don't know why this is in my report, because I wasn't the one issuing compliance on the suspects vehicle. So pretty irrelevant for this report.

5.   When you decided to start a 'Police Puirsuit' you also need to take in consideration that all people involved have different mindsets. When an accident in the form of a crash happens then that's unfortunate. 

6.   After his tires were taken out and he jumped out of his vehicle and started firing on the Officer in front of him, he was taken down. He was more focused on /OOC then giving any role-play back. Two people of our NCA Patrol took him towards the paramedic, which was at Stadium Fuel at the time. However during this short trip not one word got out of his mouth, even though some Police Officers tried to role-play with him.

7.   Then he also suddenly lost connection to the server (not Teamspeak), and didn't contact anyone to continue the role-play. Seeing as Police was still processing him.

So with that said, I will be awaiting a response from a Staff member.​

Kind Regards,​

CI Ronald Strauss​

 

[Kenway]

This is going to be my last reply until an admin asks me to. Here's what I have to state:
 

1.   In the clip named 'Report Evidence 1' you can clearly see that I was driving on the left-side of the vehicle, when the suspect suddenly pulled to the left, almost causing an accident. However due to my quick response as a trained RTU Driver I was able to direct my vehicle away from impact. 

A pursuit is to be approached with the security of leaving space between you and the vehicle you pursuiting so incase of any ingame issues or anything related to that crashes don't happen. If you choose to hop in my right side (Wich I honestly didnt even see you) its your choice to put yourself in danger.
 

2.   In the clip named 'Report Evidence 2' you can clearly see that I was driving in a straight line (when possible) avoiding all objects within my path, due to this pursuit being Off-Road. The HEMMT Boxtruck was far away from my Police vehicle when I decided my route through this obstacle course. I spotted a straight path running all the way up to Agios and decided to take that path which had Cobblestone wall left and right of it. I wasn't able to turn left nor right, because my Hatchback isn't able to drive over those walls, So I kept on going straight and then suddenly the trucked pulls into the frame and collides with the back of my vehicle. You had enough room to the right of your truck, however you still decided to go straight into my Police vehicle, when you can clearly seen on your video and my video that I had nowhere to go.

I can judge it. From my POV its clear that you were the one who crashed into me. From your POV It doesnt seem as mutch but you still see the delay between the interception and the crash. Also when you said you had no were to go that is incorrect. You chose that path and you knew well that would cut my way off, what you didnt expect was the velocity I was carrying and actually made me past it, until you crashed into me.
 

3.   After watching the footage provided by Tiger, I also noticed his Game was running in low frames? Because his video isn't running smoothly?

My plays.tv is setup to go on 480p 30fps so I dont expect the video to be high quality, because I only mean to record if I have any issue and in that case is not about the quality is about the content. I run Arma 3 on 20/30 fps, but on the whole server there are many different computers and its not because one is worst than the other that they will crash or not.

 

4.   "Making my truck flip and take advantage of that to initiate on me (unknown because he didn't came to Liaison room and didn't claim that he did it)" I don't know why this is in my report, because I wasn't the one issuing compliance on the suspects vehicle. So pretty irrelevant for this report.

If I did put it on the report it's something that I did think was relevant. When called to liason the only reply I got was It was my fault. Wat made me conclude to get a staff opinion on this is neither of the police officers in this incident tried to get this resolved as best as they could. The taking advantage of it it's just a lack of comon sense (in my opinion) and also bad atitude (in my opinion)

 

5.   When you decided to start a 'Police Puirsuit' you also need to take in consideration that all people involved have different mindsets. When an accident in the form of a crash happens then that's unfortunate. 

We are all here for roleplay. Roleplay a life in a pararell world wich is in the island of Altis. All ways trying to get this realistic do you think a truck fliping looks like it? I mean you could atleast give a opportunity away (just to make things balanced)

6.   After his tires were taken out and he jumped out of his vehicle and started firing on the Officer in front of him, he was taken down. He was more focused on /OOC then giving any role-play back. Two people of our NCA Patrol took him towards the paramedic, which was at Stadium Fuel at the time. However during this short trip not one word got out of his mouth, even though some Police Officers tried to role-play with him.

Beign completly honest, No I didn't give any roleplay after getting killed. This was not in my standard but I do have another thing to state:
 

7.   Then he also suddenly lost connection to the server (not Teamspeak), and didn't contact anyone to continue the role-play. Seeing as Police was still processing him.

I did infact lose connection due to arma 3 beign closed/crashed. But in this statement you do lie, because after this incident all of the police vehicles and including the police themselves leave the area from what I saw. Heres a clip: https://plays.tv/video/5aadcf0d39f97b1742/122 And after beign in liason with you after the incident you never mentioned it and never brought up the problem of it, because if you did put it up I would come back to the server and make sure things were dealt with properly.

 

[Ronald Strauss]

 ​

*Sigh* I wasn't planning on writing another response, however after you made some comments which are false I was forced to respond to it.​

 ​

1.1   Watching ‘Report Evidence 1’ you are able to see that I was driving to the left-side of the vehicle. Not directly behind your HEMMT Boxtruck, clearly indicating I took “Ingame Issues” into consideration. You could have easily pulled to the right in that situation, however you decided to pull to the left and ramming into the Police vehicle that was (attempting) blocking off your left-side. As I stated earlier, It because I responded quickly I was able to make sure nobody died in that situation. In a Police Pursuit there is always a element of risk for Law Enforcement and the suspect evading from justice. It’s also your choice to engage yourself into a dangerous pursuit, which means that you are putting yourself in danger as well.

2.1  As I stated earlier even from your evidence you are able to see the Police vehicle coming into your frame, there was still enough distance/time between yourself and the Police vehicle (which can't drive over a cobblestone wall) to turn away. If you look at my video you even had more time to respond and turn away from the situation, however you decided to ‘Steam plough’ through into a vehicle that had nowhere to go, when there was so much available space/time for you to turn to the right. During the whole pursuit we have been directing you away from the main road (successfully), making sure we wouldn’t take a dangerous pursuit onto a busy road. Which is a common Police Tactics used, to park yourself either to the left or right-side of the vehicle and gently force him the way you want him to go. I have already mentioned it but I personally think you had so much time available to pull away from my vehicle, that it’s clear it was an accident and not intended.

4.1   Also when we spoke in the Police Liaison you were more upset that you were initiated on after the incident occurred, then the accident itself. Even in your video you are able to see I was still driving to your left, when you were initiated on by some colleagues. From my perspective and the rest of the NCA Patrol it was clear that you pulled into, which meant that we decided to initiate onto your tires. (Which again was not me, and I told you that in Liaison as well) So it’s clearly irrelevant to this report, seeing as you are accusing me of something I didn’t commit, even in your own evidence you are able to see it wasn’t me. Besides that when we spoke in Liaison where you were also complaining about some bad experiences you had earlier that day with rebels and such. Clearly indicating you were frustrated at the time.

7.1   You might wanna also included the rest of that footage (after you were downed) because with your ‘Short’ version it shows that all vehicle are driving away, however this was due to a miscommunication on our part. If you would included another 15 seconds or so you will see that a Police vehicle would have returned to Tiger body to transport him to the nearest paramedic for further processing. So instead of tampering with the evidence, provide us with the full version. I spoke with the Officers who were transporting you to the paramedics and they informed me they attempted to speak and role-play with you, however never gotten a response until you 'Lost Connection' to the server. 

Also I didn't mentioned it in Liaison because I’m not someone that likes wasting his time in Liaison sessions and moaning about something which already happened. I’m more someone that is like “Suck it up and move on” type of guy. However I mentioned it within my response because I honestly think that is more worrying than our accident that happened between you and myself. However at first I decided to let that one slide, because people make mistakes and I believe in second chances.

Even you (Tiger) should be able to see after the evidence provided there was no reason/intend for me to cause this supposed "VDM". It's more a case of two drivers having both different ideas and then this accident happened. That is the element of risk within a High-speed/Off-Road pursuit, which you and me are aware of.​

Kind Regards,​

 

[Ronald Strauss]

After analyzing everything that was provided and written, I would also like to say;​

Being completely honest, No I didn't give any role-play after getting killed. This was not in my standard but I do have another thing to state:

I honestly think you are breaching some Server Rules over here. Which would be (2.5) Combat-logging and Low-Quality Role-play. As after your vehicle was disabled you already had firearms pointing directly at your person and you were surrounded from all sides. So unless your character is psychopath and has nothing to lose I find that situation questionable. (I’m aware there isn’t a rule stating that you have to value your life, however I still think it comes down to common sense) Also you stated you haven't made any attempt to role-play with the Officers that transported you to Medical Services, even though they made some attempt to have a conversation with you, which I also find questionable especially from an Ex-Police Officer (Refusing to role-play). I've contacted the Officers involved with the transportation of your injured body, and they will be providing me with their Body-cam footage proving my point they attempted to interact with you. Seeing as in Liaison you claimed you pressed re-spawn, however they Officers in question stated you didn't and the Paramedic was attempting to role-play with you and then suddenly you disappeared without saying anything.

 

[Kenway]

After the last reply I feel forced to reply once again:  (sorry for the copy paste at the time im not able to quote somehow)

1.1   Watching ‘Report Evidence 1’ you are able to see that I was driving to the left-side of the vehicle. Not directly behind your HEMMT Boxtruck, clearly indicating I took “Ingame Issues” into consideration. You could have easily pulled to the right in that situation, however you decided to pull to the left and ramming into the Police vehicle that was (attempting) blocking off your left-side. As I stated earlier, It because I responded quickly I was able to make sure nobody died in that situation. In a Police Pursuit there is always a element of risk for Law Enforcement and the suspect evading from justice. It’s also your choice to engage yourself into a dangerous pursuit, which means that you are putting yourself in danger as well.

I don't have anything to state agaisnt that.

2.1  As I stated earlier even from your evidence you are able to see the Police vehicle coming into your frame, there was still enough distance/time between yourself and the Police vehicle (which can't drive over a cobblestone wall) to turn away. If you look at my video you even had more time to respond and turn away from the situation, however you decided to ‘Steam plough’ through into a vehicle that had nowhere to go, when there was so much available space/time for you to turn to the right. During the whole pursuit we have been directing you away from the main road (successfully), making sure we wouldn’t take a dangerous pursuit onto a busy road. Which is a common Police Tactics used, to park yourself either to the left or right-side of the vehicle and gently force him the way you want him to go. I have already mentioned it but I personally think you had so much time available to pull away from my vehicle, that it’s clear it was an accident and not intended.

As you said I could see you on my frame and for the maneuver you are telling me I could do I had to respond in between 1/2 seconds. You had me on frame all the time and you could see the movement I was taking since I followed a straight line all the time and that you can't say anything about because in your second video and my video you can see that.

4.1   Also when we spoke in the Police Liaison you were more upset that you were initiated on after the incident occurred, then the accident itself. Even in your video you are able to see I was still driving to your left, when you were initiated on by some colleagues. From my perspective and the rest of the NCA Patrol it was clear that you pulled into, which meant that we decided to initiate onto your tires. (Which again was not me, and I told you that in Liaison as well) So it’s clearly irrelevant to this report, seeing as you are accusing me of something I didn’t commit, even in your own evidence you are able to see it wasn’t me. Besides that when we spoke in Liaison where you were also complaining about some bad experiences you had earlier that day with rebels and such. Clearly indicating you were frustrated at the time.

When we spoke on liaison we were talking about my claim of VDM and what happened after. I obviously had to mention the initiation. First of all it would be taking advantage of a VDM (from what I saw in my video) and also not even be audible due to the distance of the officer to my truck and the helicopter noise. You stated in liaison that it was my problem to have no earplugs on wich I think it's unfair.

7.1   You might wanna also included the rest of that footage (after you were downed) because with your ‘Short’ version it shows that all vehicle are driving away, however this was due to a miscommunication on our part. If you would included another 15 seconds or so you will see that a Police vehicle would have returned to Tiger body to transport him to the nearest paramedic for further processing. So instead of tampering with the evidence, provide us with the full version. I spoke with the Officers who were transporting you to the paramedics and they informed me they attempted to speak and role-play with you, however never gotten a response until you 'Lost Connection' to the server. 

The footage ends when I tab out of the game to switch channels to try to have a chat with you. I tabbed out because I saw you all pulled out and the only thing that would remain for me is death and here yes I did a mistake. I shouldv completly end the situation before speaking on teamspeak and that goes on both sides because: I shouldnt tab out of the game and your patrol collegues knowing we were in liaison came back to treat me or wathever knowing we were in teamspeak discussing this (with the move of miscomunication that you stated).

Also I didn't mentioned it in Liaison because I’m not someone that likes wasting his time in Liaison sessions and moaning about something which already happened. I’m more someone that is like “Suck it up and move on” type of guy. However I mentioned it within my response because I honestly think that is more worrying than our accident that happened between you and myself. However at first I decided to let that one slide, because people make mistakes and I believe in second chances.

What you stated tells it all. If I was aware this was a problem I would try to fix it. I only put this report up because I asked you to have a admin opinion on it with both videos but you couldnt upload it because of your internet speed. This wasnt a issue discussed in liaison and I wasnt even aware of it since I dont know what happens to my npc after me tabbing out and closing arma.

Even you (Tiger) should be able to see after the evidence provided there was no reason/intend for me to cause this supposed "VDM". It's more a case of two drivers having both different ideas and then this accident happened. That is the element of risk within a High-speed/Off-Road pursuit, which you and me are aware of.

I had my reasons to think it was intensional. The only thing that bothered me was that you while in liaison only said that it was my fault that we crashed etc,etc.

I honestly think you are breaching some Server Rules over here. Which would be (2.5) Combat-logging and Low-Quality Role-play. As after your vehicle was disabled you already had firearms pointing directly at your person and you were surrounded from all sides. So unless your character is psychopath and has nothing to lose I find that situation questionable. (I’m aware there isn’t a rule stating that you have to value your life, however I still think it comes down to common sense) Also you stated you haven't made any attempt to role-play with the Officers that transported you to Medical Services, even though they made some attempt to have a conversation with you, which I also find questionable especially from an Ex-Police Officer (Refusing to role-play). I've contacted the Officers involved with the transportation of your injured body, and they will be providing me with their Body-cam footage proving my point they attempted to interact with you. Seeing as in Liaison you claimed you pressed re-spawn, however they Officers in question stated you didn't and the Paramedic was attempting to role-play with you and then suddenly you disappeared without saying anything.

Again a issue we didnt speak about in the liaison and it seems it only got important when I reported you eh?  Beign a Ex-Police Officer doesnt say anything about myself and my roleplay, I knew long time before that how to roleplay.  This was no case of refusing roleplay as I wasnt aware that you guys came back to get me to medics while I was paying attention to teamspeak in liaison. When in liaison once you stepped into the channel I sent you the link to the footage of my POV wich could only be provided after the close down of the game, so there is no way I could have my arma open at the time, but again I will state that I had no awareness that this was happening neither from the game (because it was closed at the time) and from teamspeak (has I wasnt told on teamspeak). Just a final thing on when you said I claimed I respawned. I dont know what I said but what I think I said was: The only thing was left for me is respawn. Has I was a bit frustrated at that time my english doesn't help and I think you can give that one since I'm from a non-english speaking country (but I still try to do my best).

 

[Alfred]

So, This report has only been up 24hrs and there has been a lot of back and forth happening.  I have read through the statements made by both sides and watched all videos provided.   
The conclusion I have come to is that this is not a case of VDM.  This was simply an accident.  The rule reads;
(2.1) Vehicle Deathmatch (also known as VDM) - Using any vehicle as a weapon (e.g running people over, causing explosions including while sling loading, ramming, etc), will result in you receiving a ban. Three vehicles are excluded from this, MRAPS (Ifrits, Hunters and Striders) can ram other MRAPS in order to disable them, yet not to kill the passengers.
I do not believe that CI R Strauss was trying to use his vehicle as a weapon.  This is clear in both videos and then reinforced in CI R Strauss video by his reaction as soon as the vehicles hit.  
I believe that both parties were driving in a straight line and did not want to move out of the way for each other. This is a simple road traffic collision that could have been avoided by both parties if anyone of you moved out of the way.

Moving onto the Combat Log. I can not do anything about this as I have no footage of it to review.  If you have footage of this incident please place a player report before midnight tonight.

From reading this report I get the feeling that from as soon as the two vehicles collided you were intent on going to TS. This is then proven by the below quote.

This was no case of refusing roleplay as I wasnt aware that you guys came back to get me to medics while I was paying attention to teamspeak in liaison. When in liaison once you stepped into the channel I sent you the link to the footage of my POV wich could only be provided after the close down of the game, so there is no way I could have my arma open at the time, but again I will state that I had no awareness that this was happening neither from the game (because it was closed at the time) and from teamspeak (has I wasnt told on teamspeak). Just a final thing on when you said I claimed I respawned. I dont know what I said but what I think I said was: The only thing was left for me is respawn. Has I was a bit frustrated at that time my english doesn't help and I think you can give that one since I'm from a non-english speaking country (but I still try to do my best).




 

What I will say to you is.
Finish the situation you are in, in my books by you tabbing out and going to liaison with the police to discuss what has just happened. Means you are robbing that medic of his RP.  You have to continue with every situation you are in no matter what. Just because you are downed does not mean you are out of that situation. You are only released from your current situation when you have started a new life. This is when you should go to liaison or log out to upload a video.
All too often medics have RP stolen from them by people going to liaison. Medics don't patrol on the island to get "//in liaison. Just revive me." or people to say nothing at all to them when they arrive because they are too salty about what just happened.  It is disappointing to see people who play this server and complain about different factions RP on the server when they themselves are more concerned with a liaison off the server. 

Report rejected.