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The new weapon in citys rules?

crazyone

Well-known member
Location
Denmark
so yea, it seems like, the rule is, if you enter a city, with a green circle you would end up banned, wich is fair enough at this point, then we take it to the rebels point of view, what if i want's to sell my drugs in kavala, and the cops tells me to stop, is the whole situation just me going on my knees, and accepting getting fined/arrested, because if i had my gun with me, i would get banned, if i used my gun, i would definatly get banned?

I thought the whole point of the server, was to keep it to serious RP, and if had to sell a truck full of coke, i would bring a gun, and shoot if the cops tried to stop me.

Just a thought, and correct me if i'm wrong in any way :)

 
Spoke to Ed about this and if I understood correctly, the ban for weapons in cities only applies to standard civilians. Rebels in this case are not standard civilians and if seen with a weapon in a city, will just face the usual punishment of fine/prison, weapon removal. Obviously, if they go and shoot people with out RP that's a different story.

It's basically the same as it ever was but should help stop some of the RDMing idiots on Altis (normally new civs who got their hands on a gun too soon).

 
Well i spawned in athira this morning and had my weapon out (rebel) got circled by 8 cops that explained to me that i can't have it.  Had to explain that i just spawned and got told to spawn in Rebel area, where i'll probably get shot on sight by campers before i can get out of the city.

 
Well i spawned in athira this morning and had my weapon out (rebel) got circled by 8 cops that explained to me that i can't have it.  Had to explain that i just spawned and got told to spawn in Rebel area, where i'll probably get shot on sight by campers before i can get out of the city.
You can have it... however its against the law (not server rules)... therefore they can arrest you fine you and also send you to prison 

The new server rules will be posted very soon.

 
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The rules in the west haven't really changed much (and to be fair, Wilco and I are still working out the specifics - some of which may come about as a result of observations).

Basically, the jist of it is:

1 - the 'green zones' are there to make it absolutely clear to noobs and non-rebel civilians (often one and the same thing), that RDM is an absolute no-no and will get you BANNED from the server permanently (subject to the usual one-off unban appeal via the forums which may or may not succeed).

2 - as it always has been, ANY civilian (non-rebel) carrying a weapon in open view (on his back, in his hand) runs the risk of being reported, observed or otherwise classed as an RDMer, without even having to fire a shot, if he is in one of the green zones. An unwarned ban may follow, if admins are around and spectating (or as a result of reports of actual RDM, if it can be quickly established that the perpetrator is a non-rebel civilian and carrying a weapon, via the admin tools we have available now). The only rider to this is a robbery, in which a weapon may have to be carried in order to pull off the knock-down... but that will usually be obvious, and if the robbery escalates to an execution (especially without any roleplay) the perpetrator is basically still an RDMer and will get banned.

3 - rebels (with valid rebel-membership) are NOT likely to be subjected to the 'instant-ban-on-sight' if they are carrying a weapon in the green-zones, (again, assuming admins are able to determine this via the in-game tools quickly, or if the person is known as a genuine rebel). However, if they have weapons on view (over shoulder, on back, in hand, etc) within a green zone they are guilty of a crime and if caught by police, will most likely be fined and/or have the weapon confiscated. The trick here is to not get caught: obviously, if you are a rebel, possess a big rifle that won't fit into a backpack, and are shopping for food/gear/clothing/licences in a green zone town, then you are a bloody fool. Do that kind of shopping trip in the red-zone, and face up to the risks presented by other weapon carrying-nutjobs like yourself - or (for the time being) find a smaller western town to visit which isn't in a green-zone (but bear in mind you may not be able to spawn there, and may have to spawn in a green-zone with weapons out, so maybe it's not worth the risk?). On the flipside, if you are in the green-zone with the intention of dealing drugs or contract-killing a cop, then subterfuge is your watchword. You most likely WILL have a weapon out, and you must be careful to avoid detection or you'll be subject to police attention - BUT you must still be incredibly careful to roleplay any engagement in which your weapons are used - or else you will risk a ban for RDM. For example, gunning down cops that you happen to see as you trot into the Kavala church to flog some ganja, will not be considered 'roleplay' unless those cops have spotted you, warned you to drop your weapons, elicited some kind of verbal response from you, which then escalates naturally into a running firefight. You should NOT be looking to shoot-to-kill on first shot anyway (you really want to add MURDER to your list of drug-charges?) but wounding a cop on the first shot, as a warning to him, in response to his challenge to you, would be considered fair-play, and probably buy you the time needed to make good an escape.

The only other situation where rebels (plural) will be armed and in a green-zone is during an admin-approved attack on one of those cities, at which time, roleplay is considered a given, as a full-scale riot/attack/war is in effect. Rather like Sofia last night (which we hope to repeat quite often now, given that the concept has been established and worked rather nicely).

So. I hope that covers most of the wrinkles. The main intent is, as I said, to make it easier for the idiot RDMers to be 'weeded out' of the green-zones more simply. And to provide those same hotheads the scope to 'get it out of their system' in the red-zone, if they really want to cause havoc. As admins, we will NOT be compensating ANYONE for losses suffered in the eastern red-zone as a result of RDM, VDM, indirect fire, crashing whilst fleeing, etc. The red zone is DANGEROUS... It's where the loonies live. It's the frontier. It's where the cops rarely go - and if they do go, they go in numbers, and/or they go in toting weapons and with hair-trigger fingers, on a hardcore operation to extract a hostage or a wanted criminal that's worth the increased risk.

 
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Ok just a question, When im off duty as a civillian ( I still use my real name ) I have a rebel licence but i don't wear rebel gear except a hat with the radio on it, i do carry a weapon with bino's out. Im guessing this is no longer an option? in places such as Athira?

 
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Couple of wrinkles there, Gillburg...

RPing as an off-duty-cop-who-is-a-rebel-carrying-guns is pretty dodgy any way you cut it...but only from a cop rules point of view. As an admin, I say good luck to you. But don't let the cops find out, or you'll be for the high jump! Oh... and no cop metagaming please. Forget what Gillburg wrote above... you'll have to catch him 'at it', to get this one to stick. :)

But no, to answer your question - the 'binoculars out' trick is not considered enough to hide the weapon. It's partly the reason the whole map got changed, to provide an area where 'free use of weapons' could happen (on the east side), to counterbalance the fact that Killerrabbit and the cop team wanted to crack down on the realism (or lack of) of people wandering about major cities with rifles strung over their backs and being 'ignored'.

You (as a rebel) CAN of course elect to use the binocular trick to ensure a civ can't steal your weapon, but you must consider yourself 'exposed' and fair game to the cops if they see you with that weapon over your shoulder. You are still carrying a weapon in plain sight, and will most probably lose it or be fined if you are stopped by police successfully. The bino trick is no longer considered as 'hiding' the weapon. Just like in real life, it's a lot harder to steal a weapon from someone with it over their shoulder and locked in under their armpit, than it is to nick one from an unlocked bag. So it's a valid option FOR YOUR OWN SECURITY... but it's not hidden, and doesn't count as invisible to the cops. Quite the opposite. And of course, this bino option is ONLY an option for rebels. Civs caught doing this will automatically be on the list for potential ban, because it means they have a RIFLE, which is a no-no for a civ (in Altis Law terms) and if they're in the green-zone too, then it's highly likely they're about to RDM. Only a lunatic civilian would carry an illegal, unlicensed rifle in plain sight in the green zones - and we ban lunatics, because their RP is usually shit! :)

 
i havnt done it for a month and a half it was just to iron some wrinkles out for the rest of the class  :D   But does this mean even having a rebel licence is illegal for cops to have even though they gained it before joining the force, When im not on duty i am an law abinding salt miner.

Since that incident i don't role that way if you know what i mean guys :D

On topic i think these rules are an improvement from my perspective.

 
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Well, given that it's impossible (at the moment) to lose a rebel membership (licence), there's really no way that the cops can regard your membership of the rebels as being current - unless they actually catch you in the act, or receive and can prove reports about you acting for the rebel cause in a proactive manner. So, no, it's not illegal under Altis Law to have rebel membership, as far as I know (I'd be interested to hear the cop-team's own viewpoint on this). As you rightly say, you might have had it from BEFORE you were a cop, and it is now a dormant membership, which would be okay, surely?

However - and here's where it gets a bit subtle - if you held on to the rifle or other weapons and gear that you purchased 'back in the day' when you were once a rebel, instead of selling or just ditching it, I guess the cops (if they found it on you) could question how 'dormant' your rebel membership really is... A once-rebel citizen who turned over a new leaf would've handed in these weapons... they are illegal contraband, after all.

Similarly, if you've recently used the rebel stores to purchase rifles or big-league guns since joining the cop force - even if you only purchased those weapons with a view to self-defence while salt-running - it could be said that you have continued to kindle your relationship with the rebels and as such, may not exactly be as 'innocent' as you claim.

Put another way... if a cop bounces you in a green-zone town, because you've got a Katiba on you, and says "these are illegal to own, and server-bannable in towns if you aren't a rebel", what are you going to plead? If you plead "I'm a civ" then you're looking to be on dodgy ground because, well, you've walked right into the 'de facto' RDM rule there. Meanwhile, if you say "Oh, I'm a rebel" and the cop recognises you as a member of the force, he will rightly say "WTF??" And presumably report you to a senior officer for disciplinary action (as well as confiscate your rifle and fine you).

So yeah, it's a tricky corner to allow yourself to be put into. Don'cha just love roleplay? LOL. The risk is all yours. Of course, if caught, you could just give the cop a warning to bug out, offer to bribe him, threaten to kill him if he tells, etc, etc, and use the event as a catalyst to leaving the force before they catch you (if that's a direction you're heading in). Alternatively, you could play the "I just found and it was on my way to hand it in" card, and see whether anyone believes you.

Or it might just be wiser to play it safe....

Ultimately though, as admins, the very fact that you were 'rebel membership holder' would mean that there'd be no ban (unless you actually went on to commit a demonstrable RDM). But you could be in a world of shit with the cops, whatever happens! LOL. That's down to them... and you! :)

 
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The rules in the west haven't really changed much (and to be fair, Wilco and I are still working out the specifics - some of which may come about as a result of observations).

Basically, the jist of it is:

1 - the 'green zones' are there to make it absolutely clear to noobs and non-rebel civilians (often one and the same thing), that RDM is an absolute no-no and will get you BANNED from the server permanently (subject to the usual one-off unban appeal via the forums which may or may not succeed).

2 - as it always has been, ANY civilian (non-rebel) carrying a weapon in open view (on his back, in his hand) runs the risk of being reported, observed or otherwise classed as an RDMer, without even having to fire a shot, if he is in one of the green zones. An unwarned ban may follow, if admins are around and spectating (or as a result of reports of actual RDM, if it can be quickly established that the perpetrator is a non-rebel civilian and carrying a weapon, via the admin tools we have available now). The only rider to this is a robbery, in which a weapon may have to be carried in order to pull off the knock-down... but that will usually be obvious, and if the robbery escalates to an execution (especially without any roleplay) the perpetrator is basically still an RDMer and will get banned.

3 - rebels (with valid rebel-membership) are NOT likely to be subjected to the 'instant-ban-on-sight' if they are carrying a weapon in the green-zones, (again, assuming admins are able to determine this via the in-game tools quickly, or if the person is known as a genuine rebel). However, if they have weapons on view (over shoulder, on back, in hand, etc) within a green zone they are guilty of a crime and if caught by police, will most likely be fined and/or have the weapon confiscated. The trick here is to not get caught: obviously, if you are a rebel, possess a big rifle that won't fit into a backpack, and are shopping for food/gear/clothing/licences in a green zone town, then you are a bloody fool. Do that kind of shopping trip in the red-zone, and face up to the risks presented by other weapon carrying-nutjobs like yourself - or (for the time being) find a smaller western town to visit which isn't in a green-zone (but bear in mind you may not be able to spawn there, and may have to spawn in a green-zone with weapons out, so maybe it's not worth the risk?). On the flipside, if you are in the green-zone with the intention of dealing drugs or contract-killing a cop, then subterfuge is your watchword. You most likely WILL have a weapon out, and you must be careful to avoid detection or you'll be subject to police attention - BUT you must still be incredibly careful to roleplay any engagement in which your weapons are used - or else you will risk a ban for RDM. For example, gunning down cops that you happen to see as you trot into the Kavala church to flog some ganja, will not be considered 'roleplay' unless those cops have spotted you, warned you to drop your weapons, elicited some kind of verbal response from you, which then escalates naturally into a running firefight. You should NOT be looking to shoot-to-kill on first shot anyway (you really want to add MURDER to your list of drug-charges?) but wounding a cop on the first shot, as a warning to him, in response to his challenge to you, would be considered fair-play, and probably buy you the time needed to make good an escape.

The only other situation where rebels (plural) will be armed and in a green-zone is during an admin-approved attack on one of those cities, at which time, roleplay is considered a given, as a full-scale riot/attack/war is in effect. Rather like Sofia last night (which we hope to repeat quite often now, given that the concept has been established and worked rather nicely).

So. I hope that covers most of the wrinkles. The main intent is, as I said, to make it easier for the idiot RDMers to be 'weeded out' of the green-zones more simply. And to provide those same hotheads the scope to 'get it out of their system' in the red-zone, if they really want to cause havoc. As admins, we will NOT be compensating ANYONE for losses suffered in the eastern red-zone as a result of RDM, VDM, indirect fire, crashing whilst fleeing, etc. The red zone is DANGEROUS... It's where the loonies live. It's the frontier. It's where the cops rarely go - and if they do go, they go in numbers, and/or they go in toting weapons and with hair-trigger fingers, on a hardcore operation to extract a hostage or a wanted criminal that's worth the increased risk.
Thank you very much for explaining this. Had me all confused at first!

 
LOL HD - don't panic. It's just that (if you remember) I built a whole 'rebel-on-the-run' subgame (which sadly, never got round to being tested, because I got re-routed to this whole island split thing, as a result of the call by the cops to make rifles 'illegal contraband').

That subgame features a mechanism whereby if a rebel KILLS A COP, his rebel membership is revoked - due to him having 'shown out' the rebel cause to a high degree. He then had a period of time (as yet undecided - might be an hour, might be two, might be 20 mins) to get back to a rebel outpost and re-buy his rebel membership back for peanuts. And if he failed, it would cost him full price (£500k).

The rebel-on-the-run subgame is currently 'on ice', but is built. We may yet see it implemented, we may not.

That's all I was referring to when I said 'at the moment' it's impossible to lose a rebel membership, that's all. I promise! I have no other secret plans to enable its revocation.

 
I have another question then, within the red area, is it allowed just to be a idiot in a Ifrit and just try to run everyone over you see? 

Some people say there is no RDM/VDM rules in the rebel area, but others state that the RDM rules does not apply, but the VDM does?

 
Thanks that really clears things up for me.  I needed to know this as the rules on gun ownership has become much more complicated.

 
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I have another question then, within the red area, is it allowed just to be a idiot in a Ifrit and just try to run everyone over you see? 

Some people say there is no RDM/VDM rules in the rebel area, but others state that the RDM rules does not apply, but the VDM does?
VDM is never allowed from what i have heard Crazyone. RDM on the other hand is legal in redzone if i understood it correctly

(But still no-no rdm from cops in redzone, we still need to RP :p )

 
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From what ED said last night, there are no rules at all in the red zone.... its lawless. 

Itll all be cleared up soon once wilco releases the new server rules.

 
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