Weapon Crafting

[ufff]

Brief Summary:

Remove weapon crafting from civilians, lock it behind turf gangs & whitelisted groups

Detailed Suggestion:

Basically my suggestion stems from the sheer amount of guns currently on the street. 

I feel like right now everyone is mining & smelting just farming away out of the way of all kind of roleplay in order to spend 80 steel and some wood to craft a gun. Right now the server I feel has WAY too many guns, people selling them for 80k with 50 bullets, it's just stupid imo.

I'd like to see all pistol manufacturing locked behind whitelisted groups/turf gangs, increase the recipe cost to make them & make the steel harder to make, whether it be more materials to make 1 steel bar, maybe every now and again you'll be unable to remove the impurities from the iron and the steel will fail and give you back a trashed iron ingot that can be smelted down or used for crafting other things like basic lockpicks. (Which also should be removed from the warehouse and have to be bought from gangs but that's for another suggestion) 

Guns should go up in price MASSIVELY. Now I know in recent weeks the prices have gone up from select groups but the little man that is smelting on the side selling them for 80k then makes even more money. 

TLDR: Please remove civilian weapon crafting, hide it behind groups of people that are trusted and are in place because they have built a backstory around this kind of thing. Bring back doing crimes with knifes, bats & maybe occasionally you'll need a gun. 

The Pros:

Money sink if someone does actually want to buy a gun.

More people on the streets actually roleplaying rather than hiding in the mine or the smeltery for 8 hours a day

Guns actually mean you have something, you've built up a backstory with whoever you're buying the guns from & you're not going to wave it around willy nilly and loose it. 

Cops can move back to roleplaying rather than having to fight everything so they win and can remove a gun from the streets, if it goes to that people loose a lot of money and can't just go buy a new one for 80k or run back to their house get the materials and head out to a public bench and make one relatively risk free.

The Cons:

The grinders that are  here for guns and guns only will not be able to get them as they haven't put time in anywhere else. 

People are going to complain.

No others, people don't like change. 

(My opinion not that of the staff team) 

Does this suggestion change balance on the server ?

Yes, massively! We're moving back toward a more player/group driven econemy where we might be able to create a money sink so people like myself don't have 20/30m+ sitting around, if i want people to do crimes for me, i have to pay the price ultimately for the weaponry from trusted sources. The "Little man" doesn't now have the ability to get on the server grind for 2 days and have unlimited free guns, build up roleplay with people and it'll push quality roleplayers towards the gangs and help weed out the people that are here for the wrong reasons. 

 

[LegendaryChaos]

Great Suggestion. I like knife fights over gun fights 90% of the time, it is more enjoyable. I am not saying that no one should have guns etc but I would prefer a knife fight over a gun fight any day. It's more realistic and more enjoyable and more effective. I have seen some people who don't know simple server rules and are playing for atleast 2 days and carrying standards and sometimes even UZIs.

 

[JaffaBenitez]

Not too sure on the material increase but apart from that i do agree with the way guns needs to be sold on the server. Gangs will actually have so many more interactions whether it be gangs getting people to mine for them and meeting them to pay for it, gangs setting up more gun deals and makes an actual situation out of it instead of "oh yeah ive got a gun for sale come turf and buy it" and people will spend more time in general interacting with people instead of grinding all day. I do think guns should still be in the server as at the end of the day its still GTA and tbh with you they are kinda needed to do most crime with.

 

[Father]

+1 , sick of the people who join, find out within 20mins fishing or trucking is the way forward, few mins later > Gun > Ammo > People dead with no RP

 

[Phoenix]

Sorry, but how does this solve the problem exactly? By moving gun supply to gangs only, not only are you making the already incredibly powerful gangs even more powerful, you're not actually solving the issue of guns being hard to get.

All you're doing is moving the method from obtaining guns for those new to the server from mining for resources and crafting them, to trucking for the money and buying them. They'll be just as easy to get, except every gang at that point will start selling weapons making them far easier to get ahold of as you'll always have a guaranteed spot to get them from. Stemming a supply means that supply has to come from somewhere else, which it'll be picked up by gangs. The amount of supply you'd be removing means that every single gang will begin mass-producing and mass-selling.

You remove any kind of weapon dealer RP and instead make gun supply happen solely in heavily fortified gang territories.

This doesn't solve the problem, it just makes it worse. You change the method for most from crafting to buying, and we all know money is an incredibly easy resource to get on the server. You essentially are then making the mines useless for normal player and lock yet another thing behind gangs, making anyone who doesn't want to join a turf gang even more useless.

There are better ways to solve the problem with making crafting harder, levelling systems so you don't just suddenly appear in the server with the knowledge on how to craft pistols and other hurdles you can put in the way without outright saying "you must be in a turf gang"

 

[Custard Cream / Jay Macs]

I agree on this hugely as both someone who plays police and who plays civ. When i first joined the fiveM server guns seemed to be few and far between with even most gangs not having them and melee weapons were the go to choice and the server actually felt balanced and what a UK themed server should be. Now it feels like a US themed server with guns owned by every other civ and basically every cop carrying them. Its basically just Altis now, were guns aint hard to get and everyone carries them and thats what most the civ pop works towards instead of spending time committing to actual rp or just getting in gunfights non stop.

The balance or change in guns is seriously needed and the goal of this being a UK themed server needs to come back. Things get so bad especially early hours in the morning between like 1-5 when i like to patrol most as its quieter but now all that happens is you get robbed or shot at by gangs or civs with little to no rp and no fear of losing their guns because they are stupidly easy to get. I do agree with the concept that guns should be locked behind whitelisted gangs and even then they should be made significantly harder to make and then the dearming of regular patrol cops could return and actually return more rp to the server instead of the KOTH battle it feels like alot of the time. 

 

[Louis]

Sorry, but how does this solve the problem exactly? By moving gun supply to gangs only, not only are you making the already incredibly powerful gangs even more powerful, you're not actually solving the issue of guns being hard to get.

I think it will solve the problem. To me, it makes no sense that every character in the city knows how to make a gun. Where's the roleplay back story with that? If you limit the supply of guns it will bring gun crime down. Now it won't happen overnight as at the moment there is a lot of guns in circulation in the city but it will work long term. 

I think gun crime needs to come down. Every argument in the city seems to end in someone getting shot and it's a bit shit. The meta is to pull guns on someone who pissed you off and not just have an argument and possible exchanged some good RP. 

I feel with who many guns there are it's making the RP on the server go worse because people don't want to RP situations out and just want to shoot. Am gonna say it, starting to feel like Arma and I hate that. 

Limit the guns, push for better RP. People need to remember this server is about RP and not just shooting someone because they called to a dick. 

Massive +1 from me. 

 

[DrewK]

I like the idea of it... How ever alot of gangs/people in gangs arent the best at RP so punishing players that aren't in a gang isn't great... Its like putting every other person at a disadvantage... When I first joined the city It felt awesome with the dre music and the gangs were pretty much only way to get the things you needed.... 

Fishing then broke the economy that along with casino and imports etc etc... Nobody wants to rp anymore because every one has there own little beef and wants flexing rights. 

The banks still haven't been baught back 100% not sure about humane labs so there's 2 big ways of making money out of the server and obviously most the player base want the money an guns. 

I feel like your suggestion is good but to implement it and be successful "locking crafting and guns" then ide reccomend a server economy whipe along with the introduction of A LOT MORE LEGAL WAYS TO MAKE MONEY. 

Maybe legal ways of making money can benefit people more just like mechanics less chance of using a repair kit. 

Maybe like a chef "less ingredients to make ur own food or at cheaper cost with drinks"  

Refuse collector " can find rare things in rubbish bins" 

The gun thing can be fixed quickly with a job script. But instead of punishing players for choosing an illegal route u need to reward them for a legal route and create more access and routes/way of rp. 

Introduce more legal ways to make money and interact ways of needing other people... Just like making guns needs normally more than 1 person for best results. 

Also the fact that no one really has a charector with a back story or even plays a charector. Every one just has the arsehole attitude "what do u want what u doing round here"  and shooting people cus they give u a mouthful back and bragging there a top fragger..  Like come on man. 

How ever I do see your suggestion as a good one and one that I think with the player base as it is one that would change the server for the better PROVIDING GANGS CHANGED THERE RP AND ACTED LIKE THE FACE OF THE SERVER. 

 

[Namron]

I'm not sure if this is the most effective method of reducing the weapons but I can see how it might help - my question would be: aren't gangs half the problem here? 

Gun crime has been in a downward spiral, generally decreasing the quality of roleplay, ever since the bigger guns were added a couple months ago. 

 

[ufff]

I'm not sure if this is the most effective method of reducing the weapons but I can see how it might help - my question would be: aren't gangs half the problem here? 

Gun crime has been in a downward spiral, generally decreasing the quality of roleplay, ever since the bigger guns were added a couple months ago. 

Honestly, no, they’re not. The 2 people that don’t rp with anyone and grind the miner and smelters all day then sell their guns for 80k are the problem.
 

Guns are too accessible, atleast to buy from most gangs you have to build up a story with them and do some work for them before they’ll sell you anything. Gangs like money but guns wouldn’t be the only way they’d make it, they have a lot of stuff to do. 

 

[DJ]

There should be certain speciality for gangs really, the lore they came with never seems to be followed, can't remember the last time I saw gangs not just openly talking to each other and chilling out. 

Have some specialise in drugs, other in weapons, others in something else. Your massively limited on this server unless your in a gang these days

 

[ufff]

There should be certain speciality for gangs really, the lore they came with never seems to be followed, can't remember the last time I saw gangs not just openly talking to each other and chilling out. 

Have some specialise in drugs, other in weapons, others in something else. Your massively limited on this server unless your in a gang these days

You mustn't have played for the past 3/4 weeks because it is CONSTANT war between the gangs. 

 

[JB_]

I agree a lot with a lot of this post but I can see how much of this suggestion is going to be agreed with by gang members and disagreed with by people who play CIV. 

If you were to lock the guns behind the gangs the gangs would need to take more responsibility on who they sell guns to. I'll admit if someone comes to me for a gun they get a price pay it and fuck off. More effort would be needed on our part for us to act like gun selling carries a higher risk, like we can't just sell to anyone that wants it. People have to earn the respect of the gang in question before they can do something like asking to buy a gun but at the moment money talks and gangs need money. I agree with Jaffa the recipe is fine as it is... For gangs like ours constantly involved in shoot outs it doesn't allow for much time to stock up on them in the safe so I wouldn't really change this too much as it could lean more towards the heavily grind focused gangs more than those of us who have to craft a quick 10 or so here and there when we can.

There should 100% be more gatekeeping when it comes to pistols and they shouldn't be something people casually carry around 24/7 unless there is a purpose behind it. It would take a conscious effort from everyone to ensure this happens though and it only takes 1/2 people in a gang desperate to make money to make this not happen.

Tbh i don't know what the solution is, but the conversation starting is a good start.

 

[JimmyTheGinger]

Can I say something very simple but rather overlooked? At the moment, the only things that can be produced with matrials from the mine are.. Guns, bullets and lockpicks.. If there were more 'legal' items that we could craft, such as repairkits, tools. ANY other use for steel would drive up the prices of guns. Alternativley, guns could be 'maintained' meaning you'd need to use further resources from the mine to keep your gun in working condition.

Locking guns behind Lost, Ballas etc won't fix anything imho.

 

[Phoenix]

Guns are too accessible, atleast to buy from most gangs you have to build up a story with them and do some work for them before they’ll sell you anything.

But you and I both know this isn't how it's going to work in reality. Gangs are going to sell guns to anyone who asks them because it's easy profit, and stemming the supply solely to them means every gang will be selling them, making them just as easy to get.

I think it will solve the problem.

But you haven't said how. Everyone will know that they have to ask a gang member to purchase a gun, so how is moving the method of obtaining one from crafting to buying making it any harder? And how, specifically, is making gangs even more powerful than they already are (Being that they are 50% of the problem with guns already due to their size) helping?

 

[ufff]

But you and I both know this isn't how it's going to work in reality. Gangs are going to sell guns to anyone who asks them because it's easy profit, and stemming the supply solely to them means every gang will be selling them, making them just as easy to get.

But you haven't said how. Everyone will know that they have to ask a gang member to purchase a gun, so how is moving the method of obtaining one from crafting to buying making it any harder? And how, specifically, is making gangs even more powerful than they already are (Being that they are 50% of the problem with guns already due to their size) helping?

Now that's just pure speculation. If guns become a rarity and theres some value behind keeping them off the street they won't sell them to anyone. 

 

[Melondwarf]

I have to say I agree that there are far too many guns out there, shootouts are too common, and there is almost always a gunbattle somewhere in the city.
However, I don't really agree that this is something that only gangs should be able to do. That would just empower the gangs even more, beyond the perks they already have.
What I would suggest instead is to have many (and I don't mean two or three) tiers/levels of guns tied to a crafting skill.
Take the musket from the park ranger job, it's absolute garbage. That's your first tier, like a pipe-gun, absolute rubbish. Then after a lot of crafting you might be able to do a simple revolver, bit higher damage, but horribly slow firerate and potentially poor aim.

Keep that list going and going, each tier being more and more difficult to get to.
Will this mean gangs won't be apex in gunrunning? Absolutely not, but it DOES leave the door open for dedicated solo/small crews to put the hours in and become an independent guncrafting group.
Might also end up opening the door for an RP like "I need a gun that can't be traced" when you need shady dealings done, so you go to a crew that is NOT a gang that will be harder for cops to keep tabs on.

Guns will be much more of a long term investment before it starting to pay off properly, scarcity causes price to go up, quality causes prices to go up. Random gun violence will go down because you can only do so much with a shitty weapon.
Add onto that perhaps a "failure rate" tied to your skill, where you risk just wasting every little material you spent ages getting. Just like how NHS can fail to revive people or you can fail to flip your car back.

 

[DJ]

Keep that list going and going, each tier being more and more difficult to get to.
Will this mean gangs won't be apex in gunrunning? Absolutely not, but it DOES leave the door open for dedicated solo/small crews to put the hours in and become an independent guncrafting group.
Might also end up opening the door for an RP like "I need a gun that can't be traced" when you need shady dealings done, so you go to a crew that is NOT a gang that will be harder for cops to keep tabs on.

i like the idea of guns being traceable back to whoever makes them,  that way if a certain person or group made and sold guns too much then it gives a reason for the police to raid them and keep pestering them, or you could use more materials and get it without the serial number or tracing or you have to take the weapons somewhere to get it done for money. 

You mustn't have played for the past 3/4 weeks because it is CONSTANT war between the gangs. 

no i haven't tbh, feels too similar to arma atm with the gun meta so it just put me off playing. 

 

[FragstarGames]

I see how the suggestion would work and i agree gun crime needs to come down massivley BUT at the same time i dont think locking it to just gangs is the correct way to do so and my reason for that is if that was the way forward rather than me RP'ing my way to get infomation on gun crafting and locations and then working my ass off to ge to the stage of 1 gun (bare in min for 1 civ making a gun is a lot of work compared to a gun producing them) if you lock it to gangs only then i just spend 5 minutes going to a turf and asking to buy one and job done its seems that this way would be far easier for civs to get them even with a price increase. Plus i have to agree with @Normanwhile playing as police and NHS majority of the time gangs and police are always at war or a gang member has shot another gang member for what ever reason. The only time you ever see civs shooting each other is either one of them is being robbed or they tried to steal something from them. Im not saying that civs dont shoot people because they do but i think gangs do far more than what civs do in terms of gun crime so locking it away to just gangs i feel wouldnt help anything imo. I do agree that it needs to be resolved maybe just in a different way.