When is it ok to shoot on sight

[Ryidon]

Hi guys,

I've been playing this game for a while now and I've noticed the police have far too much power without any weaknesses/fears that require them to be cautious. People need to first speak with them before they can open fire or demand anything which is a dead give away. Even if you use bait (someone to approach an officer, unarmed) and inform the officer that there is X amount of armed men aiming at them, they officers will always kill the unarmed "bait" and open fire on anyone in the area. 

The server now boasts 30 police officers and 50 civs with an unknown amount playing as rebels (lower than 30). With this many police on the server, they can pretty much do whatever they want and make playing as a civilian ( both involved in crime and not) completely crap. Police officers wait by Cocaine processing and try to kill/arrest anyone in the area, I've seen one group of police officers open fire on a helicopter that was scouting out the processing plant.

The police have far too much power to abuse, the majority of these police officers are ex-gang members that did all the same illegal stuff others do, these same people now use their OP position to do even worse things without any negative effects on themselves as they believe they operate above the law for the law".

I understand this is an RP server, but why can't people RP as a villian or terrorist, with no other objective other than to cause mayhem and chaos. Think of them as the anti-police. This would make playing a police officer less OP and more vulnerable as they must try protect the good while being open to attack from the bad.

The rebels don't offer the same as the above as they are the "police" of the red zone, they abuse the powers in the exact same way, but are more upfront about it.

TLR, the police have too much power with no counter balance. (30 police on the server, 50 civilians, 10-20 of which are rebels). If you are not playing as a police officer, then you are pretty much the AI in the background for the Police's fun.

 

[Claws4life]

the only thing I HATE that happens on this server. is the fact that officers tazing rebels on sight ANYWHERE (even outside cities) is completely fine and allowed for them since "rebels are dangerous". But if a rebel shoots a cop on sight.....*Ban hammer slamming sound*. It is a bit unfair since cops are dangerous for rebels too! shouting "get down on the ground" to an officer completely gives away your position and makes them go to cover, but on the other hand the cop would have tazed first then talked later without giving away his cover. I don't wanna name and shame but some of the cops on this server don't even role play at all. I once knocked an officer out and told him to drop his weapon and not try anything stupid. once he got up he turned around really fast and tried to taze me (zero role play). And then after one of my friends shot the idiot dead he cried rdm rdm. Some of the cops on this server....I don't even.

 

[Denis P]

The only place you're allowed to kill on sight, is in the red zone.

If you're planning a murder outside of the red zone, you have to be more careful though. I agree that tazers shouldn't be used without some kind of forewarning, or unless the police officer's life is in immediate danger. However, there are exemptions. Let's use Claw's case as an example. If a cop is playing in third-person as most players do 3/4 times when it is available, they will look around in third-person, quickly turn around and taze. In my opinion, this should NOT happen. In real life, no one would be able to, or possibly even dare to do something like that. If the person threatening the police officer is right in front of them, and none other are in sight, then sure, go ahead. Give them a taze.

As for the rebel threatening the police officer. If you've ordered him to lay down his weapon, and he refuses, you are clear to fire, as you've given him a chance to comply. If the officer is able to call in backup, you're also technically allowed to engage the responding officers on sight, as by responding, they take part in the initial robbery, and therefore also the roleplay. As for your friend. From what Claws is saying, it doesn't seem like the officer knew of his friend. This is a mistake easily made, as irl, not many would've told them that they had extra friends, though it might be worth telling if you know you've got the upper hand, to prevent mistakenly reporting players.

 

[Spunky Bumlove]

I would not be against seeing some sort of Terrorist role on the server, but only if it had the same whitelisting process as the Police, with interviews, ranks and the like.

 

[Steffen]

Rebels kinda are the terrorists, but the thing is that the cops taze first and ask questions later. The rebel loses his weapon and need to buy a new one. Cop who dies just need to respawn and get free gear again, this takes 2minutes as for rebel it takes around 10-20 minutes to get full gear again and paying alot of hard earned cash.

 

[Neo]

Okay, people call the police tazer op, its range is short, its accuracy sucks (specially if running has been involved), and zig-zagging usually counters it.

It's 30 police covering a LARGE area of the map, usually confined to the main cities of Neo Chori, Kavala, and Athira.

Just because you're not a rebel, doesn't mean you cant cause harm.

There are Trolls, VDMers, RDMers which can take quite a few police off normal duties.

If you want to kill a cop soooo badly, role play it, if you don't know how, then watch others.

Okay Listing over, what you seem to be looking for is http://www.takistanlife.co.uk/

 

[Claws4life]

The only place you're allowed to kill on sight, is in the red zone.

If you're planning a murder outside of the red zone, you have to be more careful though. I agree that tazers shouldn't be used without some kind of forewarning, or unless the police officer's life is in immediate danger. However, there are exemptions. Let's use Claw's case as an example. If a cop is playing in third-person as most players do 3/4 times when it is available, they will look around in third-person, quickly turn around and taze. In my opinion, this should NOT happen. In real life, no one would be able to, or possibly even dare to do something like that. If the person threatening the police officer is right in front of them, and none other are in sight, then sure, go ahead. Give them a taze.

As for the rebel threatening the police officer. If you've ordered him to lay down his weapon, and he refuses, you are clear to fire, as you've given him a chance to comply. If the officer is able to call in backup, you're also technically allowed to engage the responding officers on sight, as by responding, they take part in the initial robbery, and therefore also the roleplay. As for your friend. From what Claws is saying, it doesn't seem like the officer knew of his friend. This is a mistake easily made, as irl, not many would've told them that they had extra friends, though it might be worth telling if you know you've got the upper hand, to prevent mistakenly reporting players.

you don't get it... when someone is behind your back aiming a gun at your head telling you to drop your shit, you are supposed to ROLEPLAY and drop your shit, not try to magic turn around and taze...even if it's one guy.

 

[Neo]

and without third person, how would you know they're behind you?

IRL:

If I wasnt married with kids:

If I had a taser and someone said drop all your shit, I'd make sure to taze them, they wouldn't expect it....

Now that I'm married with kids:....

Please, shoot......

(jk).

 

[Lemmen]

and without third person, how would you know they're behind you?

IRL:

If I wasnt married with kids:

If I had a taser and someone said drop all your shit, I'd make sure to taze them, they wouldn't expect it....

Now that I'm married with kids:....

Please, shoot......

(jk).

That, Brilliant! Sums the Wife and kids dream up pretty good

 

[Ryidon]

Rebels kinda are the terrorists, but the thing is that the cops taze first and ask questions later. The rebel loses his weapon and need to buy a new one. Cop who dies just need to respawn and get free gear again, this takes 2minutes as for rebel it takes around 10-20 minutes to get full gear again and paying alot of hard earned cash.

No rebels are not the anti-police I'm referring to. Rebels are simply better equipped civilians that act like police in the red zone. (If you do something bad in the red zone, most likely you'll have a pack of rebels after you).

I can't agree more with the double standards police have, they often fail to role play, do not every co-operate and ALWAYS try to fight their way out. What usually happens is, some sort of gun fight is going on between Civilians/rebels whatever. The cops show up, you can see them drive up, but you can't actually shoot at them. They get out of their cars and do one of two things, 1/ Take cover and tell the closest people to drop their weapons. Or 2/ immediately taze whoever they can without a word said, take all of your equipment and put you in jail for about 15 minutes. Weapons are expensive, If a cop dies he instantly gets re-geared for free, very different story for everyone else that just gets tazed.

30 Police is far too many, they are not spread out across the map, about 20 of them will operate in Kavala, tazeing and bullying whoever they want. 2 will usually hang around cocaine processing, roughly 2-4 will be in neochori and 2 will be in Athira. This is saturated in players that usually abuse their power and fail to follow the most basic RP, unless they manage to taze you and try charge you, then they are all for it because they get a power trip.

Without an anti-police faction, you are giving the police an immense amount of power that puts the game completely off balance. People are starting to get sick of being tazed, shot at, bullied by these cops and it's causing a large amount of frustration. I'm pretty sure everyone could give examples of bad experience with the police here. 

 

[Vladic Ka]

You should probably record and make a post about all of these non role playing officers you seem to encounter or report to either an admin or senior officer who is online at the time.

If I am online and you have any problems with any of the officers in Athira please feel free to poke/message me on TS and I will be happy to discuss the incident.

 

[Ryidon]

You should probably record and make a post about all of these non role playing officers you seem to encounter or report to either an admin or senior officer who is online at the time.

If I am online and you have any problems with any of the officers in Athira please feel free to poke/message me on TS and I will be happy to discuss the incident.

Sure, I will do. So, just so I understand you clearly, you want me to record the game everytime I play it, when I encounter a cop that "fails to RP" I then must leave the game, edit the video, post this video to the forum where it will be reviewed by Admins (who are cops anyway), or/and I can speak with you on TS unofficially. Now not only is this a lot of time/effort put in on my part, but at best, the police officer I'd be reporting would only get some sort of verbal warning if anything at all, where as I've wasted my own time, money and whatever I was doing at the time of the conflict. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but that seems to have the biggest negative effect on me instead of the report player(officer). Now this is the biggest reason that alot of incidents go un reported. You guys know this and the often take advantage of it. Being tazed without warning, before a police officer even initiated RP, arrested (unbreakable bonds, cant escape them at all (OP AS FUCK)) subjected to a rectal invasive examination (do you know if you fail act as if you rectum is actually being invaded by a hand here, I've heard some police threatening to report for lack of RP, sick fucking shit)..

Your reply also completely skipped the rest of my point that police never co-operate and if some is pointing a gun at your head in RL, then you would think twice before spinning around and charging at them with your tazer  out. This in my opinion is also failing to RP.

you reply might look helpful, but tbh it is just a false indication of caring. It does not change the fact that you the Police force of 30 players have an incredible amount of power which you abuse. Without an equal balancing force, you are just running rampant doing what ever the fuck you want.

Now you will prob say, that's the way it is, or some other dismissive comment and won't actually address the fact that the police are in fact OP. 

- Free weapons and kit

- Weapon dmg is insane

- Free high performance cars, heli's, 

- A weapon that incapacitates the target

- Unbreakable/un-escapable super cuffs that not only restrict your hands but make you completely immobile

- Free reign to arrest anyone or anything based on nothing more than appearance (rebel cloths even tho not rebel)

 

[HDGamer]

I can understand where you are coming from on most of this, and I have to agree with some of it. Just to point out there are quite a few non-cop admins (Wilco, Cardoso, Sovereign, myself etc.) so there is no way that bias will occur. Also I recommend that instead of trying to report the entire police force, you actually report the individual that you witness breaking these rules. I realise it can be hard work, but the more you think this, the more comfortable some non-rping cop will get knowing nothing will come of him breaking rules. Also more reports from half a dozen unbiased people will get looked into very quickly, so encourage other people to report what they see.

 

[Vladic Ka]

We could make accusations about rebel groups as a whole but you will find any persistent offenders, when it comes to rule breaking, will be reported either to an admin or on the forums and unfortunately the only real way to do that is using video evidence and trust me I feel your pain.

I think what you need is a conversation with SI Maratek whose job it is to specifically investigate any officer abusing powers or breaking role-play. You have obviously experienced incident’s that have skewed your opinion of us.

It would be interesting to find which admin or senior policeman you have already approached that has made your opinion and I quote, “but at best, the police officer I'd be reporting would only get some sort of verbal warning if anything at all.” We take all accusations seriously.

The information below is my own opinion:

- Free weapons and kit (Policing is like a second job and in real life you would not have to pay)

- Weapon dmg is insane (The average officer carries a vermin. Would you pick a vermin or a MXM?)

- Free high performance cars, heli's, (Once again real life police do not pay for vehicles. They perform exactly the same as the civilian skinned vehicles. As for the heli’s only NPAS trained officers have access to them with 1 maybe 2 at most available to police the whole of Altis and that is only if you have one of the few trained pilots available)  

- A weapon that incapacitates the target (Tazer is OP. We all know that however any abuse should be reported)

- Unbreakable/un-escapable super cuffs that not only restrict your hands but make you completely immobile (they can be lock picked)

- Free reign to arrest anyone or anything based on nothing more than appearance (rebel cloths even tho not rebel)   (Personally I do not arrest people in rebel clothing or anyone for random searches. I must either have reasonable suspicion of illegal activity or have determined through ANPR that the owner of a vehicle is on the wanted list.)

[SIZE=medium]I can tell you have not had good experiences with APC but please do not tar us all with the same brush.[/SIZE]

 

[Denis P]

you don't get it... when someone is behind your back aiming a gun at your head telling you to drop your shit, you are supposed to ROLEPLAY and drop your shit, not try to magic turn around and taze...even if it's one guy.

In fact I do. I WAS saying that that is how it should be played out when the gunman is behind you or otherwise out of sight. -_-

 

[BratJaggesVlnd]

I don't like the "Report"-culture many people are advocating here. The need to constantly video all the time is taking the fun out of the game. And like Ryidon said, we end up loosing so much playtime, which means loosing money.

Why can't you make a post about the state of the Altis police force? Many officers are good at RPing, and fair and just, but some just aren't. This wouldn't be such a huge problem if there weren't soooo maaany cops. And, for example, a bank robbery is doomed to fail unless you are at least 6 people and have a huge amount of luck, and its almost never worth it since you don't get that much money. (Yesterday my group made 117000 and had to split it nine ways, and we lost most of our guys).

I completely agree about the whitelisted "Anti-Police", that would be awesome.

 

[HDGamer]

Moved to Altis Life chat as this seems quite 'on-topic' rather than a general discussion

 

[The Shadow]

The way I see it rebels should not been in a green zone town, they are a rebellion against the government/police if they are seen inside a green zone town in full rebel gear they should be treated as a suspicious character.... As for the insta tase problem, I myself if I see a rebel with an illegal Gun out anywhere outside the red zone I approach with caution whilst telling the suspect to drop his weapon if he does not comply or faces towards me in an aggressive way I would tase and restrain the suspect. As for people that moan about the tactics police use to safely tase and restrain someone, if your carrying an illegal weapon outside the red zone in an area police patrol you are most likely to be apprehended or killed depending on your actions towards the police.

Please do record every possible encounter with the police so the senior officers can review the videos and see what actions need to be taken, I'm sure if someone got caught failing to RP or spam tasing and you showed the evidence to a senior depending on how serious the actions are they could decide to boot them out the force or strip them of their rank and send them back for training.

You help us improve, we will help you have a better gaming experience.

 

[Ryidon]

The way I see it rebels should not been in a green zone town, they are a rebellion against the government/police if they are seen inside a green zone town in full rebel gear they should be treated as a suspicious character.... As for the insta tase problem, I myself if I see a rebel with an illegal Gun out anywhere outside the red zone I approach with caution whilst telling the suspect to drop his weapon if he does not comply or faces towards me in an aggressive way I would tase and restrain the suspect. As for people that moan about the tactics police use to safely tase and restrain someone, if your carrying an illegal weapon outside the red zone in an area police patrol you are most likely to be apprehended or killed depending on your actions towards the police.

Please do record every possible encounter with the police so the senior officers can review the videos and see what actions need to be taken, I'm sure if someone got caught failing to RP or spam tasing and you showed the evidence to a senior depending on how serious the actions are they could decide to boot them out the force or strip them of their rank and send them back for training.

You help us improve, we will help you have a better gaming experience.

You do not help our gaming experience as much as you think you do. Firstly, this isn't "Moaning" about the so called "tactics" police use. This is a legitimate compliant and sharing of opinion. Using words like "moaning" is an attempt to belittle the opinion I'm  trying to share and is a perfect example of what the police force's perspective of other players in game. You actually view us as less than you because you have no actual threats that make you vulnerable. Even if you get killed, what do you actually lose?... NOTHING.

Don't use condescending words to belittle someone else's opinions just because you are so out of touch of what playing a game at the lower end of the spectrum when the ONLY way to not be open for abuse is to become a police officer.