WL Groups special crafting

[JordanDMK]

Let me start off by saying this is solely my opinion on what I feel would improve quality of life in the city. I understand there will be a lot of mixed opinions on this and I expect crims to be all for it whilst cops will be against. I ask everyone looks at this with a open mind and the opportunitys it could provide.

I would like to see WL's groups have the ability to make their own supply of guns  at a limited amount. For example, One gang is limited to crafting one kind of pistol one kind of smg and maybe one kind of ammo.  This would obviously have to be monitored and restricted so these WL'ed groups do not take advantage of the fact and build massive arsenals. This could be done with quicker weapon decay, weapon parts decay and the cost of weapon crafting going up in turn also making the weapon market cost go up.

I understand this would cause a massive change in the city for better or worse but obviously the staff would have to trust community leaders to not abuse the power. 

Heres another example incase what I've explained doesn't make sense to everyone;

Aztecas can craft: Glock 17, Pump Shotgun, SMG Bullets

Ballas can craft: M1911, Machine Pistol, Shotgun Shells

Cutlass can craft: SNS Pistol, Uzi, Shotgun Shells

Grove can craft: Standard Pistol, Sawn off, SMG Bullets

ETC.

The crafting can be designed so they can't use their own supply so it forces RP with other groups and deal to be made for them to get the correct ammo. I think this would also make groups think about who they will be going to war with and what ties they might be cutting. It would also affect repairing relationships in order to get what you want.

This is purely a suggestion I thought that would make WL'ed groups feel more appreciated and give them more responsibility and encouragment in the city rather than waiting for the next war.

Another thought I have considered is this could cause larger groups who are dominating to be balanced, as they cut ties with other groups and lose supply they would then fall back as other groups who maintain relationships would prosper.

Pros:

Change of life for WL'ed groups

More RP encouraged between gangs and business oppurtunties rather than constant wars.

Reason for groups to interact even if they don't want to.

Cons:

Could be abused by groups unless managed correctly. 

Dev work to give WL'ed groups the permission.

Possibily more guns but less variety and heavily armed gangs.

 

[Bleu]

+1

Sounds very good and a positive change for the community in principle.

However I fear this will not be implemented and looked down upon as a suggestion by who you really need to appeal to.

As many are aware, everything on the server is locked behind staff run factions with very little trust in the community. 

Time and time again these displays of mistrust are shown for the majority of the playerbase.

I struggle to see this changing anytime soon.

Hope to see this suggestion implemented one day. 

 

[Eden Nallebjorn]

+1

I do like the idea of each whitelisted gang serving a bigger purpose than just warring and being associated with a certain area. it means not just one singular gang is useful to know and rp with ect, but my concern is especially weapon wise. theres only so many weapons what happens when there's another whitelisted group gets added and there's nothing unique they are given to be able to make? are there going to be constant arguments and issues between groups of who got the best stuff to be able to craft  and other groups complaining that gang X can craft machine pistols while group Z can only craft 1911's and how now group Z feel like they got the short end of the stick because the other gang can make better stuff.

I really like the idea as it doesn't have to just be weapons could be anything from specialist tools such as types of drills, certain ingredients or recipes ect ect to make each gang feel like they also contribute to the server as a whole being a peice of the puzzle in a way but i do feel the implementation would have to be very very well thought out as while i can see it being a great addition, at the same time I can see it sparking up so many arguments between groups feeling theyre entitled to certain things. (this is not a insult to any paticular gang or person its just generally almost guaranteed to happen)

 

[Omizz]

-1

lost own the server and it should stay that way, if you don’t have a good relationship with them ur gang dies and I can’t see it being run any other way

 

[Abdul]

+1 However I don't see it changing from the way it has worked for a long time now which is sad. 

 

[JordanDMK]

+1

I do like the idea of each whitelisted gang serving a bigger purpose than just warring and being associated with a certain area. it means not just one singular gang is useful to know and rp with ect, but my concern is especially weapon wise. theres only so many weapons what happens when there's another whitelisted group gets added and there's nothing unique they are given to be able to make? are there going to be constant arguments and issues between groups of who got the best stuff to be able to craft  and other groups complaining that gang X can craft machine pistols while group Z can only craft 1911's and how now group Z feel like they got the short end of the stick because the other gang can make better stuff.

I really like the idea as it doesn't have to just be weapons could be anything from specialist tools such as types of drills, certain ingredients or recipes ect ect to make each gang feel like they also contribute to the server as a whole being a peice of the puzzle in a way but i do feel the implementation would have to be very very well thought out as while i can see it being a great addition, at the same time I can see it sparking up so many arguments between groups feeling theyre entitled to certain things. (this is not a insult to any paticular gang or person its just generally almost guaranteed to happen)

I agree with what you've said and I've thought about this. if you look at the example of Cutlass I said sns pistol (The worst pistol) and uzi (most used smg) it acts as a balance. Yes I expect groups to get jealous but in life gangs and organisations have different connections to different stuff.

With the example of Cutlass this would give groups a different approach on how to deal with them if they don't want to lose that supply. Same would work likewise for Cutlass if they want SMG ammo, if they have no supply to the ammo then the gun is suddenly useless.

I also like your idea of more than just guns this would encourage other groups who are do not need arensals to focus on other things.

Regarding your concern of too many WL'ed groups this can be combatted in 2 fashions, start cleaning up the dead WL'ed groups or Remove WL'ing from groups who no longer provide the standard of RP they once did. WL is a priviledge that is earned and I believe it should be taken away quicker than it is given if a group take for granted their power.

Second option would be to allow Group X and Group Z to make the same pistol, same can be said for shotguns, given the amount of WL'ed groups their would be some repeat groups that could make the same shotgun to balance the arensal economy.

 

[ErnieW]

The server meta related to these items is dictated by a very small group of people that have direct control over all of the criminal content. In my two years of being in the community change in that regard has always been heavily opposed by the individuals that control the meta and the items. The general opinion of the people that control these types of things is that normal gangs cannot be trusted to control such materials even though the gun problem was more in control when guns were craftable by the gangs. Whether the devolution of the gun meta is directly related to poor management of these factions or just a great deal of unlucky events is up for debate, I know what I think though.

Even saying all that I like the general idea of the suggestion but would comment that smaller firearms would be more appropriate as I feel that the majority of the criminal players on the server wish for a shift towards smaller firearms rather than larger smgs and one shot pistols.

 

[Charles Vane]

This topic comes up every so often and i have spend ages justifying the way it currently runs and works so i wont waste my own time. 

A few quick things i can say, i obviously hate this idea. 

I have seen gangs come and go in the 4 years i have been in the lost mc. I have seen gangs have the ability to craft guns and i have seen that taken back away from them. 

The gun market is a business not just a cheap way for gangs to get guns and quite frankly they couldnt be left in control of it. Last time they were the price of a mag was something like 50k then theu had to mine, smelt and make guns whifh also took time. Then they sold the gun for as little as 60k. 

Then, the gun market as it stands where again gangs have fucked it. Say we sell a Uzi for 300k, most gangs will then sell that for a tiny profit or even a loss just for the sake of selling it. Meaning nobody profits. Our prices are our prices and i always say how does the average new player know a uzi is not worth 800k. Give them that goal i guarantee they will go chase it and a killing can be made. 

I know people dont like the way it is now, but it works. And with the Lost and the Firm i feel you have less ground to stand on as previous it was just the lost who supplied. 

Basically, we have been there. Done it, it didnt work, back to the old way. 

I have a whole head full of reasons and justification for me never wanting this to happen so if anyone has questions or wants to nnow feel free to message me on discord. 

However, what i can say is at the minute as most know there has been a hold off on guns for months. When stuff does reopen in rp there will be some changes which will be similar to some of the things already mentioned which will give gangs a better slice of the gun trade.

As for gangs that want to bite the hand that feeds them.. well thats your fault haha 

 

[ErnieW]

Say we sell a Uzi for 300k, most gangs will then sell that for a tiny profit or even a loss just for the sake of selling it. Meaning nobody profits. Our prices are our prices and i always say how does the average new player know a uzi is not worth 800k.

You just described market saturation. Gangs participate in price wars to gain a larger share of the market. Competition between the groups causes them to sell at a lower price than you would like because you have saturated the markets. When two factions have control over this and flood the markets this is what you get. At least when gangs had control over the production the price was dictated by work in the mines and roleplay between groups, not an arbitrary price you set to make gangs grind more and to justify giving yourself ridiculous amounts of profit share.
 

The gun market is a business not just a cheap way for gangs to get guns and quite frankly they couldnt be left in control of it. Last time they were the price of a mag was something like 50k then theu had to mine, smelt and make guns whifh also took time. Then they sold the gun for as little as 60k. 

That could easily be fixed by adjusting the balance and what is necessary to craft these guns. If they sell for too little then increase what is needed to manufacture, time needed to craft, material cost, or even a system that forces gangs to buy specific parts off of each other.

Do you have any other points that support what you're saying because the system currently is nonsensical and clearly hasn't been working.

 

[Charles Vane]

So your suggestion on UN-saturating a market would be to allow 5/6 groups to craft and sell rather than 2? Its not saturation. Its people being silly and not seeing things as a business and just want to make a quick buck. 

the price was dictated by work in the mines and roleplay between groups, not an arbitrary price you set to make gangs grind more and to justify giving yourself ridiculous amounts of profit share.

^ And this part there. Thats hilarious. Where do you think all of the resources come from? Why do you think when gangs could make guns and they sold them for 60k we still had to sell the same pistol for about 140k. Because we buy all of our resources. I will show you something here. So in June alone because this is before we all stopped selling. We spent £61,815,030 just on materials alone, July was 45 million, . Putting that back into the gangs or other individuals and smaller groups that give mining and smelting a go. Some times i really do think that you all believe things are spawned in hahah.. i wish.. Its all a grind no matter what group does it. Same for the firm. 

Anyway, thats all ill say on it. But as ill say again things will change IC when things reopen. All the worries about saturation will be mostly gone when everything starts to break too. 

 

[Taelor]

+1

I like the idea of maybe small issue guns as this will help smaller and newer groups in the future to grow.

Relationships have become some what harder to build in the server with the current population being rather low, so adding something like this would help smaller groups grow meaning more population is attracted.

Wd, ceramic , engraved m19 and Molotovs only in my opinion 

 

[Samuel Shire]

+1

I like the idea of maybe small issue guns as this will help smaller and newer groups in the future to grow.

Relationships have become some what harder to build in the server with the current population being rather low, so adding something like this would help smaller groups grow meaning more population is attracted.

Wd, ceramic , engraved m19 and Molotovs only in my opinion 

I see the opposite, I would see it as a way for more and more to be able to get their hands on guns then cause more chaos in the city,

Now if all gangs had the ability to make say zip guns or add in something like 3d printing to make single shot guns that have a terrible lifespan sure could make more sense, especially seeing as most street gangs wouldent have the production capability of makeing full auto files and such

 

[Thud]

Now if all gangs had the ability to make say zip guns or add in something like 3d printing to make single shot guns that have a terrible lifespan sure could make more sense, especially seeing as most street gangs wouldent have the production capability of makeing full auto files and such

Most firearms recovered from gang members in the UK after firearms arrests are pre ww2 revolvers and shotguns that may have been heirlooms, may have been stolen off a legal owner before being sold off into the black market.

I propose allowing gangs to craft muskets, but not the ammo. They could be made to break after a certain amount of shots, say 10 or whatever.

This would provide the balance between being disposable, keeps the current gun trade viable without major changes, and allows gangs a way to produce their own weapons, to an extent. Any large scale conflicts or wars would likely warrant more firepower, but for RP reasons a musket that has the capability to actually kill someone would be a godsend.

 

[ErnieW]

It baffles me how you genuinely don't see an issue with a lot of the crim content being locked behind two groups.

So your suggestion on UN-saturating a market would be to allow 5/6 groups to craft and sell rather than 2? Its not saturation. Its people being silly and not seeing things as a business and just want to make a quick buck. 

The two factions that have been in charge of the gun market have completely bottled it and are the main reason the economy is busted and guns are out of control. Who else is to blame for the gun economy other than the people that make the guns? It's mental how you can pass the blame onto the average gang that can't make these guns. It's always been the way of, if we want it we get it and you've always been happy to provide. 

There's other more fulfilling ways you can go about the crafting of firearms on the server without giving two groups supreme power over all the criminal content. The people that are arguing the point I'm making - which btw is 99% of people that play an actual criminal gang character - don't want unrestricted access to SMGs, shotguns and ARs. The majority would be happy with a suggestion that was made some weeks ago regarding the crafting of gang engraved pistols that had a durability of a week.

i really do think that you all believe things are spawned in

Everyone knows how it works, it's not a secret OOC. We know they're crafted with material bought, mostly. However, you're acting like it's some altruistic thing you're doing buying all these materials off the poor gangs. You also act like gangs never buy their own resources, Tecas have bought steel, armour, GP. It's not something exclusive to the Lost. 

Revolvers cost £80,000 to make and they're sold on for £600,000. Thank you for the Lost MC's generosity when buying materials, whatever would we do without you.

Two crim factions have a stranglehold on all the guns and gatekeep the items necessary for banks. A warehouse company gatekeeps a necessary item needed for banks. A handful of players have access to this and dictate who has what. I'm yet to hear any reason why this is a good thing. Nobody likes it apart from the people that benefit.

 

[Samuel Shire]

 A warehouse company gatekeeps a necessary item needed for banks

its locked behind good RP, i dont deal with it personaly, but no RP or good RP no Sale, wich makes sense

though again, id prefer to see gangs having more fights with bats and blades, so maybe just make it so all the ammu nations get closed and everything they usualy sell can be crafted by gangs instead 

 

[adaco]

I propose allowing gangs to craft muskets, but not the ammo. They could be made to break after a certain amount of shots, say 10 or whatever.

Not Musket meta again pls

 

[Taelor]

I see the opposite, I would see it as a way for more and more to be able to get their hands on guns then cause more chaos in the city,

Now if all gangs had the ability to make say zip guns or add in something like 3d printing to make single shot guns that have a terrible lifespan sure could make more sense, especially seeing as most street gangs wouldent have the production capability of makeing full auto files and such

I like this

 

[Samuel Shire]

Not Musket meta again pls

oh i dno could be a sight to see, the LOST rolling up on their bikes, all climbing off and lining up like a firing squad, first row fires then second then first again when they finally reload hah