Criminal Risk vs Reward Ratio

Currently criminals have little to no reward to the risks they take. Yes i like the banks now and they are good if you can get away.   It seems to me like the way it goes now is criminals spend hours grinding to just to die to a police officer that gets a gun more powerful than most guns in the city. The criminal spends hours of their lives to just to give the cops rp to have their grinding taken away in a matter of minutes. Cops are so reluctant to give up any weapons which are free to them. I feel like at the moment criminals dont want to come on as no matter what they do they are losing. If you win a gun fight you get nothing more than a hole in your pocket having to go to the lost to buy ammo. I feel there should be some reward for winning a gunfight against a cop unit now that has at least 5 trojan units on every day. I just feel like maybe civs should be able to search down police and if its RDM then the admins take the guns that were taken? I dont know how fully to implement it. But at the moment it seems like alot of criminals are broke because of how op police weapons are compared to what civs can get hold of. In my eyes this is gta not real life so yes there is going to be gunfights isnt that what trojan join the force for? I just feel like right now criminals are really done grinding just for the cops to want nothing but a win. I will say i hate the fact now you have to get a guy up off the bed to rob him because its so awkward and tbh i actually like the cops as people. Its just so hard to get anywhere as a criminal now because of how hard is it to get hold of higher tier weapons and the lack of rewards for actually killing cops in gunfight you are outnumbered and outgunned. Its like you can buy an uzi for 70k as a criminal and go to a bank, the cops start shooting a free gun that is alot more powerful and then take your gun you grinding for. Alot of people dont want to be legal civs they want to be illegal and make situations for the police and themselves which in my opinion makes the server better for everyone

Just to add to this. I dont go for a gunfight. if we rob a bank we say lets all negotiate a way out and not shoot and get a car chase. i dont want gunfights they happen. Its gta. Half of negotiations end up with cops not picking up spike stripes and barricades anyways or placing them further down the road. Ive robbed many banks without a gunfight but its starting to get to the point with more trojan that there is more gunfights

Also from a police view at least you will get some form of roleplay instead of being robbed and basically being told hands up and give us the weapon or die. The police weapons are free so you can just go get another one and police raiding is on the way so if you know who robbed your gun you can get them raided and get it back or put a gun warrant out on the car, put bolos out. There is many different ways police can get their guns back and winning fights rewards them with getting guns off the street already. Its just a thought i hope the police understand the criminals point of view on all this.

true man say

Like the idea but i cba random baldies running around robbing guns off dead cops and go on a killing spree

Not exactly what your "suggestion" is here. But what i will say, the police have finally managed too get themselves too a point where they can actually respond too things properly, where they actually have enough trojan on the streets too fight off the stupid amounts of weapons on the streets at the minute. All of the big groups have pretty much had free reign on cops now destroying them in every scenario. Now with the latest batch of trojan officers its looking better. So now the police actually able too attend and win these situations you are unhappy that:

A. There stuff is free - so it should be??

B. You actually lose situations - you should... a police force going against a bunch of low grade criminals you should never win.. and if you do it should come at a heavy cost.. (ammo costs, warrants for arrest, raided properties)

C. You cannot get the officers 'free' weapon when he is downed - its absolutely poor roleplay when someone kills someone and then forgets about everything else other than slinging that cop over his shoulder on a H2 and taking him too a hospital bed. No, you shouldnt be able to get a cops gun unless good RP has been provided from both sides and they also see it fit. 

Trojan are there too be aggressive (within reason). The people they are going for are going too be well established criminals, not your average jo. 

People need to remember, your roleplaying a character. Police do not just forget that character is a criminal because you havnt done anything 'today' or they 'have to show proof it was you'.

Nobody says you have too be a criminal, if its too expensive just dont do it? Granted there could be more for normal civvies too do which im sure there will be but not my point.

But to say "theres no reward for killing cops" is fucking mental. 

Charles Vane said:

Not exactly what your "suggestion" is here. But what i will say, the police have finally managed too get themselves too a point where they can actually respond too things properly, where they actually have enough trojan on the streets too fight off the stupid amounts of weapons on the streets at the minute. All of the big groups have pretty much had free reign on cops now destroying them in every scenario. Now with the latest batch of trojan officers its looking better. So now the police actually able too attend and win these situations you are unhappy that:

A. There stuff is free - so it should be??

B. You actually lose situations - you should... a police force going against a bunch of low grade criminals you should never win.. and if you do it should come at a heavy cost.. (ammo costs, warrants for arrest, raided properties)

C. You cannot get the officers 'free' weapon when he is downed - its absolutely poor roleplay when someone kills someone and then forgets about everything else other than slinging that cop over his shoulder on a H2 and taking him too a hospital bed. No, you shouldnt be able to get a cops gun unless good RP has been provided from both sides and they also see it fit. 

Trojan are there too be aggressive (within reason). The people they are going for are going too be well established criminals, not your average jo. 

People need to remember, your roleplaying a character. Police do not just forget that character is a criminal because you havnt done anything 'today' or they 'have to show proof it was you'.

Nobody says you have too be a criminal, if its too expensive just dont do it? Granted there could be more for normal civvies too do which im sure there will be but not my point.

But to say "theres no reward for killing cops" is fucking mental. 

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This is spot on, I do want to add to this that there’s more than one way to rob a bank, for example, if your struggling to rob banks because there is a lot of active Trojan patrols then find ways to disrupt that, pay people off to cause some havoc and spread the Trojan units thin, or do something else creative. People are always quick to complain when things are not going there way but if they spent as much time planning the robbery and coming up with creative and unique ways to do things as they did complain, they might get the upper hand on the cops and win from being smart. Anyone can walk into a bank with a gun and have a shootout with cops, but only those that are smart, plan in advanced and are creative will succeed.

In my opinion, I feel the server is currently heavily balanced in favour of criminals. Although I believe this is starting to shift now, we are still heavily outnumbered on a daily basis. At peak times, we cannot even attempt to keep up with demand. We can get 5 shop robbery calls and we will have enough assets to deploy to 1 or 2 of those incidents. This is further complicated by the constant tapping of shop and bank alarms done throughout the city which we will often respond to numerous times to then arrive to an empty scene. We have to respond to phone calls from the public, automatic shop alarms, automatic bank alarms, automatic property alarms, panic buttons, calls for assistance from other services, radio tower locations and heists such as Life Invader. This is all done whilst patrolling the streets, doing traffic stops as well as patrolling drug fields and processors on an island which is approximately 50 square miles in size.

Further to this, I don't think there should be a reward for killing cops and actually cops should be looked to as a threat like in the real world. No reality would you kill a police officer or get into a gunfight to be able to get a reward of taking their weapon at the end. This will further make a job where you are shot and stabbed on a regular basis even more deadly. If the threat of carrying an illegal firearm is too great in comparison to the reward you get from being able to defend yourself, then don't carry one until that reward is big enough.

I understand frustration of losing to police officers on the island. Very similar to the real world but that is why criminals develop methods and doings that allow for them to conduct their criminal ways out of the eye of the law. Crime evolves and so does law enforcement constantly trying to get the edge on the opposition.

I can assure you now, the Police Issued SMG is NOT more powerful that your average uzi or deagle 

Charles Vane said:

Not exactly what your "suggestion" is here. But what i will say, the police have finally managed too get themselves too a point where they can actually respond too things properly, where they actually have enough trojan on the streets too fight off the stupid amounts of weapons on the streets at the minute. All of the big groups have pretty much had free reign on cops now destroying them in every scenario. Now with the latest batch of trojan officers its looking better. So now the police actually able too attend and win these situations you are unhappy that:

A. There stuff is free - so it should be??

B. You actually lose situations - you should... a police force going against a bunch of low grade criminals you should never win.. and if you do it should come at a heavy cost.. (ammo costs, warrants for arrest, raided properties)

C. You cannot get the officers 'free' weapon when he is downed - its absolutely poor roleplay when someone kills someone and then forgets about everything else other than slinging that cop over his shoulder on a H2 and taking him too a hospital bed. No, you shouldnt be able to get a cops gun unless good RP has been provided from both sides and they also see it fit. 

Trojan are there too be aggressive (within reason). The people they are going for are going too be well established criminals, not your average jo. 

People need to remember, your roleplaying a character. Police do not just forget that character is a criminal because you havnt done anything 'today' or they 'have to show proof it was you'.

Nobody says you have too be a criminal, if its too expensive just dont do it? Granted there could be more for normal civvies too do which im sure there will be but not my point.

But to say "theres no reward for killing cops" is fucking mental. 

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Lets talk about point C :  Im dead on the floor, 5 meters on my right there is a dead cop shouting “take his weapon take his weapon” Then an officer runs over to my body and takes my gun within 1 second and runs off without even trying to talk to me? Would you class that as roleplay?

Will Boston said:

Lets talk about point C :  Im dead on the floor, 5 meters on my right there is a dead cop shouting “take his weapon take his weapon” Then an officer runs over to my body and takes my gun within 1 second and runs off without even trying to talk to me? Would you class that as roleplay?

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holy shit this guy just spat true facts

cant forget the point of once that firearm has been seized that same copper may die himself 2 seconds later and just like that you wont ever be able to get your gun back because 9/10 times hes gonna respawn

@Charles Vane1) I agree that the police stuff should be free. My point is the criminals have to grind to get guns just to have the police gun them down and take their weapons like straight away. If it keeps up you are just going to have a island full of civs and the police will have nothing to do. 2) Groups look like low grade gangs because whats the point in me walking out with an ak and just gunning to police with it? I get nothing from it apart from a massive risk i couls lose it or have to go pay for ammo constantly. There is literally no reward from bringing out a gun bigger than a pistol in this current stage. C) I literally said i hate the fact people take cops to hospital and pick them up to take their gun. Its scummy. But i feel that police now are alot bigger of a presence. So whats the point in me going out to give cops rp just to constantly lose shit and get nothing back? Gangs will look at it that way and just stop doing crime and the island will end up with police having nothing to do. 4) Can i ask what the reward is for killing cops? i get free but then the money from the bank i robbed just goes into ammo that i lost shooting them? 

@Shepherd KingstonSo what you are telling me is you you want me to pay people to cause havoc or split into to two groups and rob banks? Which in the past has been frowned up on and ive heard multiple cops complain about the latter. As for a plan more than half of the time the officers say they pick up spike stripes but just put them further down the road so even if i had a plan that would be ruined with no tires. 

@LubeCan i ask where the criminals are now? Because to me there is like 1 or 2 big gangs that actually consistently commit crime. Half of the time the police are arresting solo people for things like dangerous driving or a random shoots a cop. I think people for get this is GTA in my opinion. It should be based of real life to an extent but end of the day its gta. Gunfights happen. Ill tell you this now there is alot more gunpower in the police than there is criminals at the moment as criminals dont see the need to bring big guns out as they get no reward from it but having to buy ammo again. If i hide all my crime then that means the police will have alot less to do? They wont find it and end up standing at legion doing nothing like they used too. 

@Antonio GarciaThe police smg is way better than the uzi. only good thing about the uzi is you can shoot it on a bike. Id 100 per cent choose a police smg over a uzi. I dont think ive ever lost a fight with the police smg. Take the other day when i saved your cop. Me and jonjo killed like 10 people with it

The only other thing i dont get is why cops dont want this? Yes we will end up on a playing field similar to you? But if we lose that gun we go back down the chain whereas you can just go back to pd and get another one? Police raids will get them guns back and will make some good rp. Imagine the reward for cops raiding a house full of police equipment? i just feel cops seem very possessive of a gun they can literally go and get anytime they want whenever they want

JaffaBenitez said:

@Antonio GarciaThe police smg is way better than the uzi. only good thing about the uzi is you can shoot it on a bike. Id 100 per cent choose a police smg over a uzi. I dont think ive ever lost a fight with the police smg. Take the other day when i saved your cop. Me and jonjo killed like 10 people with it

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I believe the Uzi and Police SMG take the same amount of bullets to kill which is a bit strange imo, but if you have an uzi accompanied by a H2 Ninja in the servers current state were you can shoot from bikes its quite the ez W with an Uzi. Most police i've spoken to have said they'd rather use the combat pistol than the Police SMG.

Antonio Garcia said:

I believe the Uzi and Police SMG take the same amount of bullets to kill which is a bit strange imo, but if you have an uzi accompanied by a H2 Ninja in the servers current state were you can shoot from bikes its quite the ez W with an Uzi. Most police i've spoken to have said they'd rather use the combat pistol than the Police SMG.

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Why tho? Im not one of these people that likes bikes. I dont use that ninja its scummy in my opinion but like you say if everyone is on the ground the police smg wins 90 per cent of the time

JaffaBenitez said:

Why tho? Im not one of these people that likes bikes. I dont use that ninja its scummy in my opinion but like you say if everyone is on the ground the police smg wins 90 per cent of the time

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No clue honestly I think some people just find it easier to kill with pistols although I do agree that on foot, police smg 'should' come out on top statistically, also I agree with you on the ninja 'meta' and i'm glad its being changed

JaffaBenitez said:

@Shepherd KingstonSo what you are telling me is you you want me to pay people to cause havoc or split into to two groups and rob banks? Which in the past has been frowned up on and ive heard multiple cops complain about the latter. As for a plan more than half of the time the officers say they pick up spike stripes but just put them further down the road so even if i had a plan that would be ruined with no tires.

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Im saying you lack creative planning.

Shepherd Kingston said:

Im saying you lack creative planning.

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im saying that no matter how much planning i put in it if you tactical contact me at 120 mph then i dont get to show the plan. Its like i havent tried but there is so many ways that you fuck up a plan before we get anywhere further than a mile from the bank

Charles Vane said:

C. You cannot get the officers 'free' weapon when he is downed - its absolutely poor roleplay when someone kills someone and then forgets about everything else other than slinging that cop over his shoulder on a H2 and taking him too a hospital bed. No, you shouldnt be able to get a cops gun unless good RP has been provided from both sides and they also see it fit. 

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I don't agree with this. If an officer is randomly killed to be stripped of his weapon - then that's poor roleplay.

If a group of criminals are in a shootout with police I think this is 100% plausible. If a criminal is running low on ammo or is lacking in firearm power and there is a downed policeman armed with something like an smg or even a better pistol, why should the criminal not use it or if that isn't possible, allow the criminal to steal magazines? 

Also the ' you shouldn't be able to get a cops gun unless good RP has been provided from both sides and they also see it fit. ' is true, however on numerous occasions I've won a gunfight and left a single officer standing surrounded by my colleagues all demanding he drops the weapon as what would happen. Clearly outgunned, outnumbered and clearly on the verge of death 9/10 officers start shooting and would rather die then respawn than to actually drop the weapon even if they've been overpowered. 

Everyone has different views on the subject, but one thing is for certain if were comparing bank heists to real life, negotiations would be taken a lot more seriously and there should be a way for the criminals in the bank to ensure safety on exit. Like be able to hold the hostage as they leave the bank with a gun to the hostages head which has been seen in other cities. 

I feel maybe if anything there could be a feature implemented that searches the body but only if the downed person accepts? Then if the officer down feels enough rp has been done then they get the gun and that stops baldies just killing people for no reason. 

I also agree with @T-Ohmas if you were in a gunfight and see a better laying on the ground you would try get that to get a better advantage on someone

T-Ohm said:

I don't agree with this. If an officer is randomly killed to be stripped of his weapon - then that's poor roleplay.

If a group of criminals are in a shootout with police I think this is 100% plausible. If a criminal is running low on ammo or is lacking in firearm power and there is a downed policeman armed with something like an smg or even a better pistol, why should the criminal not use it or if that isn't possible, allow the criminal to steal magazines? 

Also the ' you shouldn't be able to get a cops gun unless good RP has been provided from both sides and they also see it fit. ' is true, however on numerous occasions I've won a gunfight and left a single officer standing surrounded by my colleagues all demanding he drops the weapon as what would happen. Clearly outgunned, outnumbered and clearly on the verge of death 9/10 officers start shooting and would rather die then respawn than to actually drop the weapon even if they've been overpowered. 

Everyone has different views on the subject, but one thing is for certain if were comparing bank heists to real life, negotiations would be taken a lot more seriously and there should be a way for the criminals in the bank to ensure safety on exit. Like be able to hold the hostage as they leave the bank with a gun to the hostages head which has been seen in other cities. 

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smart man right here fellas