Police Zerg.

[Ronniie]

Have a suggestion that will probably be instantly denied or frowned on here but I feel someone has to say something, But the current state of the server with serval main gangs gone & players dropping off left, right & centre we don't need the mass's of police there is, IMO.

So I suggest capping the police force like Whitelisted gangs are not to 25 but to a fair amount that can either attend certain crimes, dispatches or panics or just a general daily cap on the force.

More & more situations are becoming increasingly unfair unless your a squadron of 25 because police know that 1 tap of a panic button changes the course of roleplay, they have the best of kit & every resource at catching criminals without 30+ head armoured, 5.56 shooters covered by a sniper in black-hawk & MPAS. More risk assessments should be made rather than Panicking knowing it will turn into a gun fight & more investigations further enquires & so on.

Seeing far to many police not wanting 30 minutes or so's worth of Roleplay the criminals way but wanting to spend 30 minutes coughing & spluttering with NHS to then be able to finally arrest the person anyway.


Introducing a rotor or such would possible help with the mass's of police being able to roam.


Pros:
More roleplay is able to unfold.
Actually be aloud to be a criminal for more than 60 minutes.

Cons: some feds will have to wait to go out on patrol.

 

[AndreClark]

I think there's far too much blaming police here than what you guys actually realise.

So, this is my opinion so feel free to disagree or agree as you like. But, your standard response officers will not and should not be the first to shoot. They are doing their duties as police officers. As cited prior, the level of guns and even the kind of guns everyone seems to be running around with nowadays is crazy. A simple traffic stop which turns into an fts then ends in a gun fight simply because the criminal had no escape, the result? A gun fight started by the crim. Police conduct a raid after cid gather lots of intel... We stage a Corden, gangs rock up.. result? Gun fight.


G6 do a money transport, every gang turns up.. result? Gun fight.

We attend a pillbox pharmacy robbery, one ocg inside, police decide to do a stop and search.. result? 10+ people turn up.


Yes, I can understand from a crims perspective that when firearms around it seems unfair, but firearms are generally present for post 6pm storm. Prior to this and late at night, police are kidnapped, shot, out numbered etc. the amount of times we turn up to incidents and have to declare we cannot do anything because we are "out gunned" shows the state of the server.


I agree with the previous suggestion, if you want police firepower reducing, then you have to reduce firearms as a whole. The server is based around the UK, yet everyone rocks around with guns.

I'd love for the day where us response officers don't have to use/even have ftoc. Making the ftoc become a only when high alert is in place do we have them. However, as stated previously, reducing the police firepower by making firearms use safes was abused. So you can say it's unfair, but crims are to blame as to why it was reversed.


If the server was predominantly melee weapons with only the ones who know possessing firearms, firearms police wouldn't be in high numbers and carrying their rifles.


Youre issues seem to stem with the fire arms police, but that's because firearms actually keep response, cid, rpu etc safe. That's their job.


Now on saying that, police can have habits of escalation which shouldn't be happening. We are there to de-escalate. However, you look the wrong way or have a talk to someone, bang you're shot at.


So, I would say in conclusion, if there was to be a review over police nerfing, then there needs to be a review over the amount of fire arms being used. And we know there's lots simply due to every night there 2-3 wars happening with everyone possession class 1 pistols to two handed. All of those outrank your standard police glock.


The thing is, you must ask yourselves, for firearms to have numbers nerfed, ftoc officers to be reduced and police equipment not being so easily available, would you also agree that only 10-20% of your groups should have firearms and they can't pull up in numbers greater than 2:1? Because if the answer is no, it's biased.


When it comes to winning or losing, I don't mind either. I get dommed more than any officer in this city. And I'll do my best every time to stay alive and rp. But to me, a lot of the gangs care more about the firefight than they do about the roleplay

 

[AndreClark]

I also wanna state I actually hate having to use the glock, but you're too unsafe not having it.

Also to the comment of police panic which results in a gunfight, if you're trying to hold and officer hostage with a firearm they're not going to come to scene with a baton right?

Police and crims are too heavily reliant on firearms for anything they do. Roleplay being created without the use of firearms should be rewarded/credited and try to push people away from and American server where guns are everywhere to a UK server where guns are rare, knives etc are high and police with firearms are in small quantities. That would be the real UK. But, that would depend where people want the server to go. Do you want gunfights and establish dominance over other gangs and in my opinion commonly over police or would you rather go down more rp route of not using firearms at all?


And the ones saying about mrap and the black hawk, they are on an authorisation basis only. Only when a scene is high stakes i.e police being shot at by far higher numbers than they have present does the sniper come out. The mrap only comes out at mass shooting also.


Thats just my thoughts on everything

 

[SteveStacy]

A simple traffic stop which turns into an fts then ends in a gun fight simply because the criminal had no escape, the result? A gun fight started by the crim. Police conduct a raid after cid gather lots of intel... We stage a Corden, gangs rock up.. result? Gun fight.

You want the “criminal”- yes that’s right the criminal… who probably has lots of illegal items including the gun and ammo to simply allow themselves to be arrested or their house/gang house to be raided and lose hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of ingame money and be sent to prison for hours to sit there doing nothing but wiping tables to reduce there time? … Of course they won’t. You put yourself in that scenario when openly raiding a gangs building.

G6 do a money transport, every gang turns up.. result? Gun fight.

How else do you expect the gangs to do illegal activities? Seriously, you expect ballas for example to just politely ask G6 to hand over the money truck and G6 to do so?

We attend a pillbox pharmacy robbery, one ocg inside, police decide to do a stop and search.. result? 10+ people turn up.

If you’re searching a gang member, who again, most likely has illegal items on him/her… of course they’re going to ask for help from their gang.

Police and crims are too heavily reliant on firearms for anything they do. Roleplay being created without the use of firearms should be rewarded/credited and try to push people away from and American server where guns are everywhere to a UK server where guns are rare, knives etc are high and police with firearms are in small quantities. That would be the real UK. But, that would depend where people want the server to go. Do you want gunfights and establish dominance over other gangs and in my opinion commonly over police or would you rather go down more rp route of not using firearms at all?

You can RP well and still have a Gun, I’m not sure why people think these things can’t go hand in hand.

 

[Chilli]

when openly raiding a gangs building.

So you're complaining about us doing it openly but that one time CID did raids not openly aka at 6am gangs also complained there was no chance of RP.
Can't please some people I guess.

they are done openly to add a sense of balance

 

[AndreClark]

You want the “criminal”- yes that’s right the criminal… who probably has lots of illegal items including the gun and ammo to simply allow themselves to be arrested or their house/gang house to be raided and lose hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of ingame money and be sent to prison for hours to sit there doing nothing but wiping tables to reduce there time? … Of course they won’t. You put yourself in that scenario when openly raiding a gangs building.



How else do you expect the gangs to do illegal activities? Seriously, you expect ballas for example to just politely ask G6 to hand over the money truck and G6 to do so?



If you’re searching a gang member, who again, most likely has illegal items on him/her… of course they’re going to ask for help from their gang.




You can RP well and still have a Gun, I’m not sure why people think these things can’t go hand in hand.

So you're defending at the last part having guns whilst also agreeing to the suggestions of firearms being limited am I right? The two cannot coexist.

I am all for criminals doing criminal things, it's gta. The whole premise is cops and robbers in a sense. However, when criminal firepower, numbers etc exceed what police generally can deal with, they bring in something that can deal with it. I.e firearms, very similar to real life.

Ofc gangs are going to defend their houses, turf etc. I wouldn't expect anything else. However, you cannot on one hand think firearms police and police equipment is overpowered whilst also agreeing to the levels of fire power criminals possess.


the suggestion on this forum is to limit the numbers we have, but speaks no issue about the numbers criminals have? Surely it's got to be for both or neither no?

Again, everyone shares a seoerate opinion. But, this suggestion is completely 1 sided against police. But what it fails to see is we lose 90% of the situations that happen. The brief 4 hourish Window firearms are available post 6pm storm is about as strong as the police can be. And even as of late, we're talking limited firearms.


As for entering situations, we are policing, that's our role. If gangs can't rp other than shooting at police who are there to either disband, de-escalate or stop criminal activity usually by asking them to move on, how is that us entering ourselves into anything akin to gunfights?


How often have you been at drug hot zones and the police don't try to arrest, they don't try to bully etc, they just want you to move on from dealing.. when the gangs then do it Infront of police, who is the ones baiting?


I know a lot of what I said you didn't mention, but I'm trying to have a balanced view. Criminals should have options and methods that lead to great rp. And I've had great rp with criminals. They're good fun to get involved with. However, when it comes to those who are a little trigger happy, I think you'll find out of police and criminals, it's criminals who are usually on that more commonly.


However, that being said, if police are going against conduct, then please, put the complaints in. Every route we go down can have access to Great rp. Before we think of shooting, entering scenarios etc, rp should always be at the forefront, not shooting.

 

[AndreClark]

Side note, I'm not so gifted at using forums so I apologise for quoting your whole response and not parts I don't ever normally comment

 

[Maverick Delta]

and go against all police trainings possible.

What trainings/ police rules are being ignored out of curiosity?

 

[Barry C]

What trainings/ police rules are being ignored out of curiosity?

Firearms solo crewing with rifles etc going to gang turfs and purposely putting themselves in the way of multiple gang members, and refuse to leave, which I would say also comes under common sense, nvl and baiting.

The exact same with traffic, turning up solo and driving around annoying gang members and purposely putting themselves into a situation without asking for backup etc. once again I would say this also comes under common sense nvl and baiting.

The point im getting at is simply the police love the gunfights the chases etc but the more this goes on and the more the police abuse their powers and ignore their trainings, the less and less criminals or gang members they are gonna have to do it to.

We have seen a massive decline in gang members and criminals in the last 6 months not fully but mostly to these points shown on this discussion.

Sometimes I do feel police forget their items are free and gang members/crims have to spend hours up on hours of time to get theirs. Don’t get me wrong there are officers that are amazing but there definitely are bad eggs and they are the ones that eventually ruin it for everyone.

 

[AndreClark]

Firearms solo crewing with rifles etc going to gang turfs and purposely putting themselves in the way of multiple gang members, and refuse to leave, which I would say also comes under common sense, nvl and baiting.

The exact same with traffic, turning up solo and driving around annoying gang members and purposely putting themselves into a situation without asking for backup etc. once again I would say this also comes under common sense nvl and baiting.

The point im getting at is simply the police love the gunfights the chases etc but the more this goes on and the more the police abuse their powers and ignore their trainings, the less and less criminals or gang members they are gonna have to do it to.

We have seen a massive decline in gang members and criminals in the last 6 months not fully but mostly to these points shown on this discussion.

Sometimes I do feel police forget their items are free and gang members/crims have to spend hours up on hours of time to get theirs. Don’t get me wrong there are officers that are amazing but there definitely are bad eggs and they are the ones that eventually ruin it for everyone.

Can I ask, when you say they turn up to annoy gangs, are they annoying them by just being there? Or do they come talk and bait? If so can you give examples?


That would come more as a police going against policy. If they're simply within the area and/or they come up to gangs and gangs instantly get aggressive, I wouldn't say that's police causing the issue.


I think a few leads from ocg and command of police need to get together in an ooc call and discuss these issues. Because if baiting from either side is going on, it needs to stop. Let things happen naturally right?

 

[Ronniie]

All I've noticed is just police mains get salty & defensive over this topic as if we're having a personal dig, we can all sit around & say this procedure from 1980 did work but now currently they don't or what ever the case we can all say "No this one time in band camp we only had 17 firearms attend" Its complete bollocks there's people on this thread alone saying they're leaving over the current state of police & the way they're dealing with stuff how many more is it going to be before POLCOM say you know what there's no need for all these police now we don't got crims any more? You police because we be criminals but at the moment you can't scratch your arse with a combat knife! For example i went to rob a shop for laugh last night, stuff the drill on the safe & booom delaney & his cronies rock up 4 deep and its a instant shootout? For what, a simple shop robbery that your egos are to frail to allow us to carry on, your killing the server end of! And then to keep seeing small minded replys for police mains that will had out 13 points for not stopping for police, I even know some one thats going from probie stage right the way to firearms and the guys been in the force 5 minutes so do we get fire arms training with every tornado or something?

 

[Ronniie]

Can I ask, when you say they turn up to annoy gangs, are they annoying them by just being there? Or do they come talk and bait? If so can you give examples?

we're not here for nit picking situations more shedding light as a whole on police please keep to the topic people!

 

[Barry C]

Or do they come talk and bait? If so can you give examples?

Don’t get me wrong sometimes the gang members come up to the police, but the situations I’m on about is when they come to us.

I personally have had a situation where there are 8 - 10 marabunta members and other criminals selling drugs on marabunta turf during a hot zone, where a single officer had come over asking what we were selling, where we replied leaflets and gave them a leaflet,

They then proceeded to wait 5 minutes before blatantly taking pictures in front of us, then getting out the car and arresting someone mid drug animation where they were then attacked my multiple gang members of Marabunta. This was all done solo by this officer and did not inform the rest of the police not panic. He done this in front of around 15 criminals selling drugs on a gang turf.

This is just one scenario, if I were to type them all out I’d be here all day so I will leave you with this one.

 

[Ronniie]

Don’t get me wrong sometimes the gang members come up to the police, but the situations I’m on about is when they come to us.

I personally have had a situation where there are 8 - 10 marabunta members and other criminals selling drugs on marabunta turf during a hot zone, where a single officer had come over asking what we were selling, where we replied leaflets and gave them a leaflet,

They then proceeded to wait 5 minutes before blatantly taking pictures in front of us, then getting out the car and arresting someone mid drug animation where they were then attacked my multiple gang members of Marabunta. This was all done solo by this officer and did not inform the rest of the police not panic. He done this in front of around 15 criminals selling drugs on a gang turf.

This is just one scenario, if I were to type them all out I’d be here all day so I will leave you with this one.

I seen delaney & 4 cronies chase two of my mates last night for selling on coa they was sat in bushes and everything with big ar's, they then attended a shop i attempted to drill again squaded up ars & head armour shutting the show right down resulting in them being spliffed but what im saying is, is all these firearms present necessary/

I said to delaney & his car full of officers is you being here needed to them last night and I got told me car would be scrapped if i carry on

 

[AndreClark]

Don’t get me wrong sometimes the gang members come up to the police, but the situations I’m on about is when they come to us.

I personally have had a situation where there are 8 - 10 marabunta members and other criminals selling drugs on marabunta turf during a hot zone, where a single officer had come over asking what we were selling, where we replied leaflets and gave them a leaflet,

They then proceeded to wait 5 minutes before blatantly taking pictures in front of us, then getting out the car and arresting someone mid drug animation where they were then attacked my multiple gang members of Marabunta. This was all done solo by this officer and did not inform the rest of the police not panic. He done this in front of around 15 criminals selling drugs on a gang turf.

This is just one scenario, if I were to type them all out I’d be here all day so I will leave you with this one.

Thank you for providing.
So I was there for yesterday's altercation. And personally, id have rathered it not get into gun fights etc. The issue is, on one hand it's not firearms remit to be responding to drug calls unless there is no active crimes... However, when as police we try to do our job, we are out gunned. I don't think that's the criminals faults as if you got access to the firearms use them right? And it's not the police fault as we are there in somewhat numbers. But easily outgunned. But the dispatches for drug deals isn't something firearms would respond to unless they have to. So it's kinda a very hard one.


Perhaps if a hot zone could only have a limited amount of people dealing and a limited amount of police able to attend that could make things fairer right?


It's about being constructive. Because if we don't do anything, everyone abuses. If we do something. We get shot at and then firearms attend... It's like a very hard one to change. I'd imagine if we were able to have certain terms put on hot zones for drugs that limits members selling and police number for attendance, that would be an answer somewhat.


As for us, me and another police came to the mara shop after everything later on in the evening and had a fun laugh with you lot.

I guess the cases of potential nvl or baiting only happens by certain members of both sides, would that be fair to say?

 

[Maverick Delta]

Firearms solo crewing with rifles etc going to gang turfs and purposely putting themselves in the way of multiple gang members, and refuse to leave, which I would say also comes under common sense, nvl and baiting

Solo curing isn’t always mandated, it changes as the threat goes up.

Also they are police? Trying to stop gang on gang shooting or moving them out the city is quite a important task?

90% of the time officers are trying to disperse the shootings or move you out the way.

You meantion about single response officers doing similar which is fine but don’t get worked up over it, just report it.

I seen delaney & 4 cronies chase two of my mates last night for selling on coa they was sat in bushes and everything with big ar's, they then attended a shop i attempted to drill again squaded up ars & head armour shutting the show right down resulting in them being spliffed but what im saying is, is all these firearms present necessary/

Idk you or your characters, however if someone shoots at police, they can’t suddenly expect the easy treatment in other situations.

If you are known to carry firearms and shoot at police then you have signed yourself up for a bigger response each time.

 

[AndreClark]

I seen delaney & 4 cronies chase two of my mates last night for selling on coa they was sat in bushes and everything with big ar's, they then attended a shop i attempted to drill again squaded up ars & head armour shutting the show right down resulting in them being spliffed but what im saying is, is all these firearms present necessary/

I said to delaney & his car full of officers is you being here needed to them last night and I got told me car would be scrapped if i carry on

Tbh, firearms are being used more because officers being shot at is on the rise. Wether that's provoked or unprovoked. Police should and from the calls I go to are working on a reactionary method rather than just being suited and booted.

I'd further want to add, I've heard numerous times over radio for firearms PPE to be used when a situation gets hot, and once the situation is calming they call for it to be unauthorized.


Again this is a slippery slope, if you want to blame police. You also need to see it from our perspective of how often firearms are pulled, discharged or threatened to us.


There is improvement that could be conducted by both sides here. The win lose mentality needs to stop form both sides. It not about the outcome necessarily, it's about the RP that comes with it. I can only speak for myself however

 

[Barry C]

Perhaps if a hot zone could only have a limited amount of people dealing and a limited amount of police able to attend that could make things fairer right?

Personally, I have always thought this myself because since the hotzones, it cuts a lot of the police rp down. I always preferred it when you could sell anywhere you want and the the police can intervene, this is the case with some hot zones like the ones that are the whole city, opening police to an opportunity to catch someone.

I guess the cases of potential nvl or baiting only happens by certain members of both sides, would that be fair to say?

I do agree, don’t get me wrong I’m not saying it’s the police as a whole, I’m saying there are bad eggs that ruin the fun for everyone, whether that’s the police or the criminals.

 

[Ronniie]

Idk you or your characters, however if someone shoots at police, they can’t suddenly expect the easy treatment in other situations.

FIRE ARMS ARE RESPONDING TO DRUG DEALS how more simpler do you want it? there was no shots fired there was nothing to indicate it was me for them to shit them selfs and call for back up.

If you are known to carry firearms and shoot at police then you have signed yourself up for a bigger response each time.

This just screams put your hands or your dead type RP, police like your self are the problem simple! make all the excuses you want lad simple fact is, you know it we know you just don't want to admit yous are in the wrong to save bruising on them egos, your trying to say stuff dont happen when it does and then when it does we get "report it" well no just stopp giving firearms the will to roam and respond to anything out of boredom.
If people started zerging against police the forums would be jam packed with cryers but becuase the shoes on the other foot its cool! You have gang members making fed characters because they cant wake up on crim because they're losing a war. you have gang members on conditions having to main feds! if we just carry on it just gets worst & worst to the point crims aint allowed nothing but a 19

 

[AndreClark]

Personally, I have always thought this myself because since the hotzones, it cuts a lot of the police rp down. I always preferred it when you could sell anywhere you want and the the police can intervene, this is the case with some hot zones like the ones that are the whole city, opening police to an opportunity to catch someone.



I do agree, don’t get me wrong I’m not saying it’s the police as a whole, I’m saying there are bad eggs that ruin the fun for everyone, whether that’s the police or the criminals.

See this is a good response. We can have a mutual agreement on improvements that can be made that makes it positive for both sides. It's not about winning or losing. But instead it's about balance.

Also as for yesterday, I don't blame you lot reacting how you did. Again, if something is available to you, you use it right? Part and parcel of being a criminal and that's kinda what we sign up for when it comes to police.

 

[AndreClark]

FIRE ARMS ARE RESPONDING TO DRUG DEALS how more simpler do you want it? there was no shots fired there was nothing to indicate it was me for them to shit them selfs and call for back up.

This just screams put your hands or your dead type RP, police like your self are the problem simple! make all the excuses you want lad simple fact is, you know it we know you just don't want to admit yous are in the wrong to save bruising on them egos, your trying to say stuff dont happen when it does and then when it does we get "report it" well no just stopp giving firearms the will to roam and respond to anything out of boredom.
If people started zerging against police the forums would be jam packed with cryers but becuase the shoes on the other foot its cool! You have gang members making fed characters because they cant wake up on crim because they're losing a war. you have gang members on conditions having to main feds! if we just carry on it just gets worst & worst to the point crims aint allowed nothing but a 19

This is screaming not taking responsibility. You're only seeing things from your perspective. Not ours. I see it as of course it does seem unjust to you, but if you are prolific at shooting police or carrying firearms, there will be markers against you which show that you're a high risk person. That means we need to react with the correct response. That doesn't mean conduct can't be abused of course. That will differ from situation to person. That needs reporting if it is happening.