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Rape Should be fully banned

Russ Millions

Member
Location
UK
I believe that rape should be fully banned in the server as I don’t feel like it adds any thing to the rp experience one could counter this point with torture however I believe that you can torture people for information which is used by gangs and governments in real life but rape to me has no need and I feel like we should stamp it out 

 
I agree with this suggestion a 100%, I dont believe it has any place even in RP, games are where people go to get away from IRL problems and to relax, rape is a senstitive thing / topic that unfortunately happends to a lot of people irl, therefore it being allowed to even happen here is bad as it can put people through the trauma again (yes I know you can  tell people stop in ooc but at that point the damage is done and too late imo and since the server is not whitelisted the chances of a troll grabbing you and doing that can be high). You have my +1.

Personal opinion.

 
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This is an emotional subject for some, and we've given this a great deal of thought over many years, and have returned to it multiple times recently as we've become a more 'mature' community. It's also a fact of our evolution, and the changeover to FiveM, that more women have joined us, so we continue to review this point and will do most likely indefinitely.

However, we must remember that rape is not simply a 'trauma that happens only to women', and we need to be extremely sensitive not to end up being sexist either way as we address this topic as sensibly and as sensitively as we can.

Nobody here at RPUK condones any form of IRL rape that is non-consensual, and if you're here to get your jollies engaging in oppressive, one-sided, non-consensual rape when told to stop, you'll be banned immediately. 

However, let me be quite clear. Currently on this server already, rape is the only form of roleplayed violent activity on this server that is granted the ability for players to call a stop to it OOC and expect it to end, instantly, if it arises and is suggested in the course of RP.

Note that this same 'get-out clause' is not granted to roleplayed acts of murder, theft, shooting, mutilation, torture, kidnapping, ramming or driving over with vehicles, pushing out of planes, pushing off of cranes, or any other of the horrible, violent, disgusting, antisocial, murderous, foul things that people do to each other routinely in roleplay, without so much as batting an eyelid.

It would be ludicrous and hypocritical to suggest that one form of deadly or life-changingly traumatic roleplay is unacceptable, while quite clearly, so many other forms are actually a key part of the experience that every single player here gets stuck into, at some point or another, as a normal part of living their escapist character-lives or enacting high drama and acting their socks off. It is vitally important that we retain some perspective.

The only form of violent RP we absolutely shun and ban immediately on sight, is anything deadly or sexual involving children/minors.

I think we can all agree that there is absolutely no way that form of activity can ever be considered 'mutually consensual' by both sides. However (and thank goodness), this kind of scenario should never be a thing here due to our player age-restrictions - there should never be any minors here anyway - but we would still not tolerate it even if an adult was roleplaying as a minor in the server. I don't think any of us would disagree with that hard line on this particular flavour of violent RP - but if you do, please leave the community.

Currently, all other forms of roleplay are 'fair game', because we are a Serious Roleplay server and community, and we aim to allow all sorts of 'high drama' as well as violent conflict. If you have a problem with that, or are at risk of being traumatised by such topics, you should not be here. You will most likely encounter various forms of violent activity, either received or given, and almost all of them are most definitely 'illegal out of the city', but we roleplay them here. It's whatdo. We are acting in an interactive movie/TV Show/videogame artform.

That said,  it is important to know the limits, and what we will tolerate when it comes to what is, for most people , the 'most heinous of heinous crimes': rape, and its sibling: sexual harassment.
 


IF IT HAPPENS TO YOU:

Let me re-explain the best-practice 'get-out' approach, for situations where someone requests/threatens/indicates an upcoming sexual activity (whether violent or not), that you do not wish to participate in:

  1. OOC STOP - Call for it to stop in OOC chat. If possible give the other party's session ID (gained via the /sessionheads command or using the keybind for RPUK ID CHECK  - details here: https://wiki.roleplay.co.uk/GTA:FAQ). Making your request to stop/signalling your non-consent in OOC means we can check logs later and confirm that (in the event that you had to leave the server and someone's made a combat-log report against you) we can see you had adequate reason to quit pre-emptively, and that you called out the other party clearly to stop, and no action will be taken against you for the alleged combat-log.
  2. /me STOP - Because some players have their OOC chat turned off, back up that demand to stop with a /me message that repeats it quite clearly as an OOC instruction to stop. These /me interactions are not logged, so do not rely on them alone to give heads-ups to staff, or protect you from counter-claims of combat-log. Do both, unless it is clear that the other party saw and responded appropriately to method 1 above.
  3. TICKET/CALL STAFF - If the other party continues to press for this kind of unwanted sexual roleplay, and doesn't look like stopping, open a ticket if you can. Give as much information as possible, but we do appreciate it is likely to be 'in the moment' of a high-pressure situation, and may not be fully coherent at that stage. Just get something on record, a ticket opened, so we know what's going on, even if only from a follow-up position later. If staff are available, they will attempt to take action in-game as quickly as possible, to bring the situation to an end, by whatever method is necessary at the time (including warning, kicking or banning the other party, or temporarily removing both parties, if the situation warrants it).
  4. VIDEO - If you have video evidence for any of the encounter, save it and keep it for future reference. It will once again help in the event you need to counter any vexatious 'combat log' allegation against you, and it will also (of course) assist staff in determining whether the other party was being unreasonable and breaking rules by attempting to continue.
  5. QUIT - If necessary, and if no help arrives in time, or the situation gets too much, and the other party is not stopping, just quit. Get off the server and take a break, and if you can, write up as much as you can recall and prep your video if you have one.

Remember that NONE of those actions above are REQUIREMENTS.

They're just helpful if you can squeeze them in, if time and the situation allows. It may not always be the case. Item 5 is always an option, but of course it is way more helpful to us - and you - if you've taken the preceding steps beforehand, because it stops idiots revenge-reporting you for combat-log quite so easily. But if it comes down to it, and the unwanted sexual RP situation is not stopping, and it's the only way you can cope, just get out of there. Let us know as soon as you can, preferably by ticket rather than the forum report (tickets are more private and less embarrassing for some), so we can pick up the pieces together afterwards, and take the right action.

One word of warning: do not rely on telling someone just BY VOICE that you don't want this sexual RP.

Why?  Because in-game, your voice is your character's voice. It's almost always going to be the case that your character is not going to want this encounter, in terms of plotline, but you may be acting a scene, and the other party may not realise whether you mean the STOP order in or out of character. If you want out, do it in OOC and /me - repeatedly if you have to. Remember that OOC is the only one that is logged, but might not be seen. Keep calm, if you can. Pull the plug if you have to. We will stand by you afterwards.
 


IF YOU'RE THE INITIATOR:

People who pursue any sort of 'rape RP' or sexual RP against the wishes of another person when told to stop in OOC or /me, will be banned, permanently.


The above should make it perfectly clear how anyone - male or female - can bring about an end to any unwanted sexual roleplay, and have the full backing of the server-admins to do whatever they need to do, to get clear of it. You absolutely do not have to be involved in sexual RP if you do not wish to be, and absolutely nobody can make you.
 


There remains one final group of situations worth clarifying... consensual sexual RP.

If you and another party wish to engage in sexual RP (whether purely for drama, or partly for drama + OOC fun), and both sides are 100% consenting, then it's nobody's business but your own. As long as you're doing it in a private area, or away from other people, and as long as you're aware that you might be observed, or even held accountable in RP (e.g. arrested by LS Police for indecency in a public place, etc) then it's your shout. We are not an Erotic Roleplay server, but we'd be kidding ourselves if we said it never happened. We're a 'Life' server, and sex is part of life, so it's bound to occur when couples (of any orientation) make RP (or even IRL) romantic links with each other. Just be smart about it. Anyone doing stuff that would be classed as 'indecent in public' IRL, in an area with known observers or considered a public place, will likely fall foul of City Laws and get arrested in-game - all in roleplay.

Anyone observing such a thing unintentionally, or having it thrust on them (e.g. two people deciding to get it on in a public place near them, without warning) has the same options as above for unwanted sexual RP. They can call for it to stop OOC/me, or they can leave the area, or quit the server. Call it in, make a ticket, get away, get it stopped. It should not be happening in public, or even in private if you are there being forced to observe against your will.

But between two or more players privately, all consenting, it's your choice. We're all grown-ups here - just be careful, kind and sensible with each other. Be mindful of the fact that people sometimes change their minds, too. Agreeing at the start does not mean they cannot stop or say no later. OOC/me and the steps above, is always an option.

Finally the question of 'consenting rape RP'.

Yes, it's potentially abhorrent to some people, and if done 'just for shizzles and jollies', then personally I would agree that it ain't my cup of tea either. But if done in private, between consenting adults, then it's a 'personal private business' thing, as per the paragraphs just above about any other form of consensual sexual RP. However, no-one else should ever be seeing it, or even know, so if you're thinking of doing it in public just to get your rocks off, think again.

There is one last variation, and that is roleplayed rape which is done purely for drama - to establish the most heinous of crimes as a plot-line, to provide a basis for a story arc that will later involve revenge, retribution, ostracisation, hatred, and maybe even murder of the attacker, down the line. We're talking bona fide 'Rape in Fiction' type of thing here. If BOTH parties on the opposite sides of that drama are 100% consenting (and this consent may have been worked out either in advance, and the whole thing planned as an RP story, or granted 'on-the-fly' in response to someone proposing or advancing the line of RP during an unexpected encounter), then it can continue and be acted out - not for sexual gratification, but for art, acting, drama.

Same rules apply about observers having the option to get away from it, or demand it stops in OOC/me. Same rules apply if either side of that drama storyline changes their mind - OOC/me to make it stop, and if it continues thereafter, it's bannable by the idiot who carries it on.

Some may disagree that the final variation should be allowed, but you have adequate scope for never ever having to encounter it or see it or be involved, via all the methods listed above. There are valid reasons why - for dramatic purposes only - such subjects can be fundamental to believable roleplay or storylines. I've mentioned to a few folks OOC about the TV show 'Sons of Anarchy', Series Two, where the motorcycle-gang president's wife is raped in the first episode, and the entire series hangs on the fallout from that situation. It's an eye-opening, thought-provoking, very brave series, and personally I think it should be 'recommended education' for anyone wondering what rape does to people IRL. It's harrowing, and heart-wrenching, full of consequences, conflicts, and frustrations, but ultimately, it is the best portrayal of the human side of the impact of rape, I think I have ever seen. There are other films and TV shows that cover it (see that Rape in Fiction link again for reference) - some better than others - but the point is, sometimes, done right, the 'acting out' of a rape scene is a massive dramatic impetus for a whole raft of follow-up scenes and encounters which would simply just not work so 'dramatically', if the first action had been 'implied' or done off screen. Audiences react to the experience in a way that is far more visceral and real than if it had been relayed to them off screen.

That said - remember, we are all ACTORS here. You are not your character and your character is not you. If you can't separate the two, you shouldn't be here. Of course 'you' (the actor) probably likes to win the odd gritty encounter here and there, and to participate in the gamey side of things, and the fun, and the hi-jinks, the murder and mayhem... but it's not YOU in the game itself. Your character is a fictional construct, and not a representation of yourself. This is what enables you to be able to bale out and know that the other people are (or should be) just acting too. It's not real. Don't take it home with you; don't have nightmares about it. If that's happening, get professional help. This place is meant to be fun, sometimes thought-provoking, sometimes even a bit scary (in a horror-movie/gangster-movie kinda way), but it is not meant to mentally scar you, and if you cannot take it, you should stop.

Final reminder - you never have to be involved in rape RP or sexual RP of any kind, if you do not wish to be. Just OOC/me, make it stop and/or get out of it, get help. It's that simple.

Beyond that, you do not have the power to make other consenting people stop murdering each other (sometimes without consent, or even having to check), or doing any of the other terrifying and horrible things to each other that are just as likely to give certain people IRL flashbacks or remind them of past sufferings. This is a Serious Roleplay server for mature adults. If some things are allowed, but others disallowed, simply on the basis that some sub-section of people find it traumatic, then that's remarkably hypocritical, if those same people are quite happily roleplaying murder, mayhem, kidnapping and torture, without a second thought.

That said, we will always listen to reasoned, rational debate, and nothing is automatically set in stone forever, and if it becomes obvious that something is really not working, we will change it.

Remember when debating this subject, be mindful that some people here have suffered rape first-hand, others have experienced its effects through their partners or friends, so show restraint, and be kind. Similarly, even if you have strongly felt views on the subject (either way), we will not tolerate any kind of name-calling, deliberate misquoting or taking things out of context to defame, ad hominem attacks, etc. Keep things balanced, be nice to each other and recognise that human experience and tolerances span a very wide range.
I know this is serious server but I still believe there is no need or no point in rape rp it doesn’t add to anyone role playing experience or they are just sick - I feel like most people are in favour of this rule change 

 
I know this is serious server but I still believe there is no need or no point in rape rp it doesn’t add to anyone role playing experience or they are just sick - I feel like most people are in favour of this rule change 
This is a massively oversimplified response to TBJs very nuanced and exhaustive comment, and I urge everyone to not just look at this response and go "Yea, exactly", but to actually read what TBJ wrote and try to understand that point of view, even if you don't necessarily agree.

 
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I never once said that he himself sympathizes with it. 

But he clearly says himself here that even though he doesn't like it himself and he wouldn't mind "rape RP" being banned that he still has no issue with the rule as it currently stands and that he can "see that people have different opinions on it".. now tell me how that doesn't count as tolerating these things? 

I am glad that you managed to disprove your own statement within the same sentence, no need for me to further explain how you just demonstrate that it is, indeed, tolerated. Can honestly just facepalm.
No one here tolerates actual rape, and to even try and insinuate such a thing is dishonest and frankly a disgusting way to twist someones words. I can assure you, 100%, that James is all against rape.

What the rules currently allow (and what James explained and said he could tolerate), is the acting out of a scene that includes rape, if all parties consent. That is so so very far from actually tolerating rape. Do you think we are also fine with people being murdered or tortured? No! But we tolerate the acting out of such things constantly on the server. Because that is what this is, acting, pretending, for the sake of drama and story. We're basically performing virtual live-action theater. Do you think an actor involved in a rape scene in a movie tolerates real rape?

Don't try and twist what James said into him being some kind of rape sympathiser, it's a disgusting tactic and it's arguing in bad faith.

 
With all due respect but do you hear yourself speak? The words "rape" and "tolerated", no matter in what context, should NEVER be said together. 
With all due respect I am not going to have 2 words selectively picked out of an entire response and twisted to make it suit your argument. I am in full support of the anti-rape movement, and I personally don't like the idea of rape rp. I was simply explaining how the current rule operates and in case you were not aware of this, I myself do not single handedly create, remove or alter the rules here. The only two bits of opinion I gave in that response was to state that I do not like this form of rp. 

But he clearly says himself here that even though he doesn't like it himself and he wouldn't mind "rape RP" being banned that he still has no issue with the rule as it currently stands and that he can "see that people have different opinions on it".. now tell me how that doesn't count as tolerating these things? 
I don't appreciate the suggestion that I am a symothizer of this or that I 'tolerate it'. I can see people have different opinions on as it is important that I remain completely impartial in any given circumstances or situations that arise not just in-game but in the community as a whole and deal with everything on a case by case basis. The minute I let my personal opinions, emotions or beliefs effect how I go about my role in the staff team, will be when I conclude that I am not a right fit for the team.

I understand this is a touchy subject for many, I am well aware of the pressing issues which are being seen worldwide with regards to rape, sexual assault, sex trafficking and many, many more. Like I said, I would welcome this form of RP being banned but for some reason you have decided to try and convince others that this is not the case and that I 'tolerate' this. Take what I say as it is intended, not how you wish to percieve it.

 
Don't try and twist what James said into him being some kind of rape sympathiser, it's a disgusting tactic and it's arguing in bad faith.


I don't appreciate the suggestion that I am a symothizer of this or that I 'tolerate it'
Hold on. I'd like to point out once and for all that this is NOT what I said or thought, and I am pretty confused as to why this is painted the way it is.

I never once said that he himself sympathizes with it.
And I stand by that. I did never say or hint at that so I'd kindly ask YOU to keep those kind of accusations to yourself. I don't know James, I have no idea what kind of person he is irl, I never had a conversation with him so therefore I can not comment on his views. What I can however comment on is the post he made on here, a ROLEPLAY Server's forum. And this is what this is about. The server and the rules behind it. I have NO idea why this is being painted as me attacking him personally because I did not, this is PURELY about the fact that I am against the fact that he tolerates the RULE that some people can do it if they are consenting. And that's it. That is my personal opinion on it and just as you can voice yours, I can voice mine. If you took it that way then that is on you but I assure you that this is not what I was hinting at. 

As it stands, 'rape rp' is tolerated so long as both parties who are participating are comfortable with it.


I personally have no issue with how rule (C1.12) operates currently, however I wouldn't object to 'rape rp' being prohibited completely.
Those were the only comments I took issue with. You explain that how the rules currently stand it's "tolerated" just to then say that you have no issue with how the rule (on the Server, for RP, not IRL) currently operates. 

At the end of the day I am not a person that's too proud to say sorry so if the way I worded myself left a bitter taste or left the impression that I was trying to hint on your personal beliefs on the matter then I apologize for this, it was not my intention and not what I meant at all. For me this is purely about the rule in question. I am sure that EVERYONE interacting, reading or commenting on this post is against rape itself. 

Don't try and twist what James said into him being some kind of rape sympathiser, it's a disgusting tactic and it's arguing in bad faith.
And I'd kindly ask you to please also not twist my words either, thank you! Hope everything is cleared up now.

 
Shouldn't be allowed.

A lot of talk about people being mature enough to either accept the RP or deny it if uncomfortable on this thread already.

I think everyone should be mature enough to realise it should stand no place within RP, for plenty of reasons even if you are unaffected by it.

People shouldn't have to hear about/witness/be victim of anything to do with it within RP even if they aren't the ones involved in the situation. Even just insinuating it is very bad taste in my opinion. While the rules currently allow it to take place if both parties are okay with it. I'd assume there's an overwhelming amount of people in favour of just banning it in general.

There's been a few times I've had to hear about rape situations or insinuations in city and I think its disgusting, purely for the fact that someone might be highly sensitive about it and they shouldn't have to DENY it... just shouldn't be allowed/happen in the first place.

 
I am glad that you managed to disprove your own statement within the same sentence, no need for me to further explain how you just demonstrate that it is, indeed, tolerated. Can honestly just facepalm.
Sorry, for the some of you which clearly lack common sense, he was saying unconsensual rape rp is not tolerated. If you as a person are not involved directly, just walk away? Theres nothing stopping you from removing yourself from that situation, and if you are involved, just log out? Its not real life, you have the choice to remove yourself from that situation. I have played this server for quite a long time now and I myself have never been around or involved in a "rape rp" scenario once, and my character is heavily crime involved.

 
I find it all so subjective. FiveM is a world in which we run around stabbing and shooting one another, simulating bomb threats, and watching our friends bleed out in front of us. None of these are nice things!

Methods exist to call quits on scenarios, and punishments follow for those who don't abide. This is the first I've heard of this being brought up in regards to FiveM, and I did check over the forum for topics but couldn't see others. Not sure we're exactly rife with problems relating to it.

From the votes, lots seem to support the notion of blocking it. My fear is though that it sets a precendent for blocking types of roleplay between two consential people, that has no impact on others, due to a sub-set of the community being sensitive to it. If others are forced into hearing about what's happened, and don't feel comfortable, ooc methods exist to draw things to a halt immediately.

There's plenty of stuff I feel very strongly against out in the real world, but I respect that the server is separate from life, and I'm not going to like everything that's going on. Thankfully RPUK has a good staff team and provides safety nets.

For those worrying about the types of people this might be fueling behind the screen, you should consider the age old comparisons drawn between real life actions and video games. These sorts of discussions have been around for years, and can be applied to any activity in a game. We can't say X person is definitely getting satisfaction by doing rape roleplay, but Y is fine and separating himself personally from their character's killing and torturing. It comes down to individuals.

Disclaimer:

I don't feel strongly about what happens with it, and it being outlawed I'd be fine with. I just think a lot of us are de-sensitised to some dark things that are already common place and accepted in roleplay.

And of course, my views are that of my own and not the dev team!

 
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+1000000000000

PLEASE. This actually makes me feel sick thinking about it. I don't know how I would cope if it happened to me.

 
If I see someone RP that its over for them.... Should be perm ban + no appeal

 
Fully support this, if this is done in game its beyond weird and fucked up, should be a perma. dont think anything else needs to be said.

+SUPPORT

 
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seen as consent seem to be main focus of this topics reasoning for still not being implemented even after having some of the largest upvotes on a post I've seen on the forums. I'd like to outline that by definition Rape is sexual penetration without consent. there is therefor literally no way to consensual rape someone. that would just be engaging in fair and fully legal sexualized RP. which as a video content creator I would also like to add both rape and even sexually safe practiced RP can and will lead to channel strikes, content removal and or bans and removal across platforms due to others actions within your content which is yet another reason under todays fast moving socity legal laws and terms of service across muliple platforms even overly sexulized RP in public areas of the city could & maybe should be considered a warnable offense considering RPUK literally has a Twitch team some of your rules especially around these issues literally go against twitch very own Terms of services and Youtube and most other platforms a like https://safety.twitch.tv/s/article/Community-Guidelines?language=en_US#10NudityPornographyandOtherSexualContent. Mainly though I will leave this wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_rape as it was the best reasonable legit source I could find but it outlines types of rape and Consensual Rape doesn't appear to be a legitamate statement or type of rape because by definition it's literally impossible to consesually rape someone https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/rsa/rape-and-sexual-assault/what-is-rape-and-sexual-assault/

 
I know actual People that have stayed away from the city during times People attempt this gross stuff. Even if you can decline the RP the fact it can even be attempted is very creepy and outright disgusting. Should be a instant ban with a long timeout.

 
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Should be banned 100% regardless of consent,  As should posting pics from the scene and bragging about it in discord.

 
100% should be banned

I'm not the only one who knows someone who has been or has had someone been raped or nearly raped and knowing that people are willingly trying to roleplay that sort of horrific scenario genuinely creeps me out and makes me worry about what they believe is right IRL

I'm going to add this. If you are someone who has been the victim of a rape rp I apologise you were pulled into something as shitty and uncomfortable as that.

 
100% SHOULD BE BANNED

THIS IS MY VIEW

Just because it happens IRL does not mean it should be condoned within an RP server.

This after all is still a GAME!

If you are the kind of person that wants to RAPE someone within an RP scenario then I would not only questions your intentions in the city but also your mental health. I think you really need to go and check your self into a clinic or see a doctor.

The fact that this is even a discussion because it has happened in the city is disgusting.

The excuse of it being a real thing does not mean it is acceptable.

EXAMPLES of what which are IRL but will land you a BAN

RACISM - Happens daily in real life, use a slur in the city you are getting BANNED

HOMOPHOBIA - Happens daily in real life, call someone a fa**ot in the city, you are getting BANNED

PAEDOPHILIA - Happens in real life, call someone a n**ce in the city, you are getting BANNED

RAPE - Happens in real life, but it is ok to do it within the city, which this I would class as much worse and traumatising than SOME of the others stated.

There is no situation or scenario in this city that calls for any kind of RAPE within this city. It is absolutely vile and disgusting to even attempt anything of the sort.

 
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