Report a player - Grove / Mario - GTA RP

[Greggs]

Report a player 

Your In-game Name: Kane Lloyd

Name and/or ID of the player(s) you are reporting: Grove / Mario

Which server did the incident take place on: GTA RP

Date of the incident: 01/14/24

Time of the incident (GMT) 24hr Format: 20:30

What best describes this incident ?: RDM | Poor Roleplay | Baiting

Please (in detail) describe the incident: Was made aware that grove was inside the hemp wadding place on popular street. Some may or may not no this is one of the areas that we tax regular. Lewis had walked into the building where he was greeted by around 10 grove members. Mid convo Mario comes out with "Fuck cutlass". Now seeing as we have no prior beef or any interaction at this point for him to come out and say that seems to me that there is an influential hate OOC towards us (Which doesn't suprise me as some of the stuff he says in groups is questionable and almost 9/10 times backs the Azteca's corner regardless of them being in the wrong or not). Lewis had left after the interaction with grove which to then we returned with a few more members. I walked up the stairs and was speaking with BMAV. My words to him was if you would like to use this bench you'd have to pay 20k sur charge. Before I had even finished my sentence they started opening fire on us. To me this is terrible escalation, poor roleplay and RDM. Do you think us asking for tax with no other words or actions is good enough reason to shoot us?

We invited grove to a Liason, we was met with childish remarks that sorted nothing. (Ben Liable was the only one that tried to sort it, hats off to him) I requested to the people in the Liason for BMAV to be there as he was the main person I was speaking so thought he could clarify the situation to me but didn't turn up.

* Have a clip of the Liason as well if required.

Link to any evidence (Youtube/Screenshot):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fthQg8cd4A
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMgljJ9qCBs
This report is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth!: Yes

You tried to resolve the situation with the player(s) before reporting: Yes

This is not a revenge report (Abuse will lead to forum/community bans): Yes

 

[Stic]

Good afternoon,

Before I go into extensive detail explaining my view of events, please could you explain why the second clip has been muted?
Fortunately, I have seen the clip unedited, and will post it here: https://medal.tv/games/gta-v/clips/1PfMVxa54bkayH/YPZXyHcr2AKV?invite=cr-MSx4VDEsMjEwMjcxNDEyLA?mobilebypass=true

As you can see from this RAW clip, the reason for the clip being muted, is due to cutlass metagaming. You can hear, several members of cutlass undeafen within a discord, and for one individual to say "its at hemp, it's at hemp now", a few minutes later a couple more cutlass appear, at hemp. With one member shooting straight away without the slightest hesitation, this to me suggests he is fully aware of this situation, and due to the clip I have provided I can only assume he was made aware OOC.

Clip of a cutlass "pulling up" a few minutes later: https://medal.tv/games/gta-v/clips/1PfODI3lVd4OUZ/d13374JxXDzk?invite=cr-MSxJSmIsMTA3NzI3MzAyLA

I will add, unfortunately, after this situation died down I went to make food, and therefore missed the liaison. If cutlass would like to liaise with me I would be more than happy. 

Thank you,
Mario

Edit: I will also ask you to refrain from saying that I am influenced by hate OOC, this is not only unfactual, but a very unfair assumption. I have had countless RP situations with cutlass, and do not give the slightest fucks what you are like OOC. I would like you to provide a case of me backing an aztecas, and a case of me backing them while they are in the wrong, within groups. As for the "questionable" stuff I have written by groups, it is nothing more than a few cutlass members trying to put words in my mouth. I will also add due to recent events (Speaking to Drex), my view on posting any opinions within an RP server discord has changed.

 

 

[dingbatL]

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there was no metagaming, people undeafened and was speaking to people that was already dead and undeafened cos they couldnt believe what happened/ people not even in the server... everyone was in shock because they had been mas rdmd what you heard was someone talking mid-sentance explaining what happened... and you are trying to draw at straws to divert atttention as this sounds bad due to the timing of him undeafening, hence the reason it was muted because what was said wasnt relevent and sounded bad, after you had killed us no more turned up we had who we had no one had magically appeared that didnt know we was here... this was gps'd and spoken about on radio since the "baiting" happened..

 

[Stic]

Good evening,

First of all your clip proves nothing, if this was just a case to undeafen as in your words "cos they couldn't believe what happened/ people not even in the server" what was the reason for saying "It's at hemp, it's at hemp now", unfortunately, speaking about an ongoing situation, telling people where it is and having members pull up in a car a few minutes later can only lead me to believe one thing. You state that it was muted due to it "sounding bad" but if you weren't metagaming, what would you have to hide? You have also said "after you had killed us no more turned up we had who we had", Please explain to me the clip I posted in my first reply. This member of Cutlass pulled up shooting a good 4-5 minutes after the initial incident. 

Baiting: I find it now a very common occurrence, that as soon as a gang gets itself involved in an altercation or RP scenario with another gang, that they do not want to be involved with it is called "baiting". The reason for saying "Fuck Cutlass" is my character alone has been involved in many situations where I have had to deal with Cutlass, with 229 and Autocare, one incident again involving this "tax", which has led my character to dislike Cutlass as a gang. 
Now as your members approach the hemp factory you can be heard on the radio saying "Ideally we just want the guy who said fuck cutlass". If this is the case, did you think if you walked into a room of 8-10 Grove members, they would just hand me over? Having members hiding in a bush outside with guns, instantly tells me you knew what you were doing, and as a matter of fact, expected this outcome. Personally, it would have made more sense to try to capture me while I was on my own or something along those lines......but hey that's just RP right?
 

Now for the Mass RDM accusation, or how you seem to view it "the certain mass RDM":
In the 2nd clip of the initial report, you can see several members of Grove holding guns out, this being due to a few members being on edge with ongoing wars and such. Despite this, members of Cutlass walk have chosen to walk into the hemp factory wielding machetes, shown here:

  
 

While this alone, I understand is not enough to start popping off shots left right and center, within the context of minutes before I have said "fuck cutlass" to 2 members of cutlass, as well as you come in 8 men deep to a "on edge 8-10 man Grove", on top of the fact you have chosen to ask for tax infront of said group, also adding to the "non existing" prior incidents we had with cutlass. I believe this as a whole has led up to an extremely high tension RP situation, which has not only forced you to be wielding machetes in your hands, but also have gunmen outside on standby. Resulting, in your words, a "mass rdm with no prior roleplay".
 

Now onto Greggs's claim of "poor escalation and stating there has been no prior beef":
Cutlass had downed 2 grove members (Lucy and Marcus), something which BMAV had chosen to let slide due to our ongoing war with ballas, something my character was not very happy about. As I have also previously mentioned my character alone has had many "high tension" moments with cutlass and even a full-blown war. But still, I guess this is just my "influential hate OOC towards cutlass" right?

Thanks,
Mario

 

[dingbatL]

the funny thing is when we first arrived we said nothing about tax.. yet you still said "fuck cutlass" on our own turf even to your own members amazement, i let it slide due to being outnumbered, and had planned to actually shoot you alone as you was leaving, natural roleplay had led to our members walking inside earlier than i wanted, holding a machette across the room proves nothing and dont excuse what you did, as soon as a member metions a fee you shoot its that simple, i wont even be replying to the meta accusations as johnny whom you are referring too was speaking on radio asking to call bmav serveral minutes before.. the lack of roleplay and your abition to try a prove yourself right in this instance is the problem in general from my aspect of it. this is a serious roleplay server and i expect just that, you gave nothing other than left clicked people who was expecting a chat with a gun in your hand.

 

[Greggs]

Okay.. So just becuase you've had previous issues with Cutlass in 4 different gangs this doesnt give you the right to RDM us. Again I will ask. Do you think the roleplay you provided is up to standard with what the server expects? From the point of me asking BMAV for £20,000, not 1.1 seconds after you started shooting us, Not allowing any escalation or response.

With the mentality you have saying fuck cutlass, in your mind would be enough justification for us to come in there and shoot everyone on site.

 

[Stic]

Once again you have failed to read my reply and just commented blindly.

Let me start again, "dingbatL", as I said the route you chose to roleplay the scenario out is completely up to you and is not the point, you say "the funny thing is when we first arrived we said nothing about tax.. yet you still said "fuck cutlass" on our own turf even to your own member's amazement, i let it slide due to being outnumbered, and had planned to actually shoot you alone as you was leaving", please explain to me where I have stated, you came in the first time to tax us? And how that has any relevance to me saying "Fuck Cutlass" as I have already explained why I said "Fuck Cutlass"

Members of Grove were amazed when I said fuck grove, what relevance does this have? This is roleplay, if we all did what was expected,  it wouldn't be much fun. 

"you gave nothing other than left-clicked people who were expecting a chat with a gun in your hand." please pardon me if I'm wrong, but you have walked into a room with 10 Grove members all armed and 50% showing you they are armed, you choose to walk into the room with machetes out, then ask for tax, and expect a civil chat? Unfortunately, a lack of common sense is not my problem. I do ask what would have been your route if we said no to paying the tax? I am keen to know.

Thank you for pointing out this is a serious roleplay server, I don't why you did this, but thank you.

Now onto Gregg,
Please read my reply before you decide to reply. Once again you have assumed something that I have not even come close to saying. I did not once say that being involved within 3 groups (Not 4) where I have had altercations with Cutlass gave me permission to shoot you, I clearly stated it is what prompted me to say "Fuck Cutlass", not to "mass rdm you".

Finally, do I think this roleplay is up to the standard of what the server expects? What a question. I actually would love to hear your answer, and I will provide an example of said "high standard" RP provided by Cutlass, is this the high-quality roleplay you are on about?

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Thanks,
Mario

 

[dingbatL]

you seem to be focused on other things other than the actual facts that happened within this report. i wont be replying unless asked to by staff as clearly this isnt going anywhere.

 

[Stic]

Would help if you read my reply before responding

 

[Scott]

Your report is currently being reviewed, Please be patient while the evidence is reviewed

Please keep checking this report regularly just in case the reviewing staff member has any questions

Thank you for your report and you doing your part to keep our community clean!

 

[Scott]

Hello @Greggs9

Do you have a full-length recording of the entire situation? Or anyone within Cutlass/Grove for that matter. Many thanks.

 

[dingbatL]

hi scott, my 2 videos was orignally one clip.. i edited it due to the fact i go into a gang safe that is hidden and would like it to stay that way. i dont have the missing 30secs-1min anymore as i have cleared my SSD to move things onto my m.2 drive, these was uploaded to youtube so i had them and this was the whole situation in its entirety.

 

[Scott]

Do you know if anyone else has the missing footage? 

 

[dingbatL]

sorry im confused or have i missed something? i dont know why you need it? it was 30 seconds of me going to the arcade safe and then continues as im running back out? shown in my 2nd clip.

 

[Scott]

Good evening all,

Thank you for posting this report and for the individuals who replied.

The rule breaks in question here are G1.3, G1.2 & C1.7 - I'll break these down separately.



G1.3 - Baiting: I had a chat with an SL regarding this because baiting is strangely hard to prove. In this instance, we don't feel it was broken as although the comments made were unprovoked, from Cutlass' perspective, it seems to be one character's grievance with Cutlass, not Grove's.

If all of Grove had jumped on the bandwagon saying similar stuff, alongside furthering verbal hostilities I could see how they were creating a situation where Cutlass deliberately engaged with Grove to cause a gunfight, however, it was just Mario bruising Cutlass' virtual egos (IMO) and Cutlass decide to take the challenge. 

G1.2 - RDM: I'd say we're all familiar with the RDM rule, so I won't explain the rule in depth, if you need a refresher then read our rules.

This attack certainly wasn't random, Cutlass attempted to tax a group on their turf using a bench. Same with any gang trying to tax another group using a bench, whether that be crafting, drug etc. However, was there any high-quality roleplay before attacking Cutlass? There most certainly was not.

The tensions between the 2 groups were raised given the comments made by Mario before the shooting and when Cutlass came with reinforcements to tax on their turf, both sides were wielding weapons, reasonably so. A member of Cutlass (senior?) goes to Bmav to discuss the tax (surcharge) and explains it's £20,000. ~1 second later, Mario opens fire on Cutlass yelling "Shut the fuck up". Bmav, begins to say "So you're trying to tax us lad?", but by this point, the majority of Cutlass in the room are incapacitated. Given Bmav being unaware of the events about to transpire, this tells me this was not planned, he attempted to roleplay with Cutlass but by that point, it was too late.

There was no build-up whatsoever, it went from 'fuck cutlass' to '20k tax big man' to 'shut the fuck up' whilst shots are fired. Where's the roleplay? Where's the interaction? Where's the enjoyability? Quite frankly disappointing from a veteran player.

C1.7 - Common Sense: Given the other rules listed, I'd say common sense doesn't apply, however, this situation was poor overall.



There was an accusation of metagaming and unfortunately, is uniquely difficult to prove. In this situation there isn't sufficient evidence to suggest the rule has been broken, however in future be very, very careful when discussing situations that have just developed in the game, OOC. This can have unintended impacts on roleplay that is still developing. By all means, discuss that you were RDMed, did anyone have a recording etc. but you do NOT share IC information such as location, aggressors, overall situation etc. UNTIL the situation has finished. Consider this your only warning. 

Another issue that has popped up here, edited footage. You do not edit footage in any way to the extent of removing audio & video. You might feel it's not relevant, but that is not for you to decide. If it contains sensitive information such as safe codes & locations, containers etc. then you attach the evidence by opening a ticket with staff (Forums ticket), link the report and we'll hide the evidence for you. In this situation, after a lengthy time reviewing evidence, we concluded there was sufficient context to the rule breaks and that in the missing 2 minutes and 15 seconds (Yes, I worked the time out and it was not 30 seconds to a minute), there was no important context. If you fail to do this next time around, you might more than likely find your report denied. 

This situation was RDM. As is the policy for mass situations like these, everyone involved gets punishments in line with their FBS, see similar reports: Report 1 - Report 2. It is your responsibility to ensure that high-quality roleplay has been provided before attacking another player(s), only shoot if it's the right thing to do. If you've not been punished in this report, you're lucky. Next time, you won't be.

Given the above:

Report Accepted - Action Taken:

Action: Permanent Ban under FBS
CharID: 58727
Rule(s) Broken: G1.2 

You've received a fair few bans in a very short amount of time. Be very careful moving forward post-appeal. 

Action: Warning
CharID: 13007
Rule(s) Broken: G1.2 

Action: Warning
CharID: 18294
Rule(s) Broken: G1.2 

 

[Scott]

Thank you for doing your part in keeping the community clean.

Your report has been approved and action has been taken against the reported player.

If you are out of pocket due to this case please now open a compensation request here, Do make sure to mention this report.