Revert the phonecall system to prevent metagaming.

[Elakin]

Ever since the phone system has been changed so that it does not ring if you are offline, there has been a drastic increase in 1 second phone rings from "No Caller ID" which is a clear abuse of the system to check whether rival gang/people are online or "awake".

Reverting it so that it rings regardless of your online status will prevent this and personally I can't see why it was ever changed.

For what it's worth, anyone with 3 brain cells to rub together charges their phone when they sleep.

EDIT: Picture below highlights just how poor this really is? Unnamed person as I am not here to have anyone punished, just to prevent this poor manner of checking who's awake.

 

[Cmorton672]

+1

 

[Isak]

personally I can't see why it was ever changed.

Think it was changed due to Airplane mode being implemented so you could make it seem like you were "offline" 

I also miss the system where it would ring constantly. Kinda boring having to call people and immediately be hit with "Person Unavailable". Always liked the fact you had to cross your fingers they would pick the phone instead of immediately knowing that they are offline, or the small chance they are on airplane mode.

 

[Elakin]

Think it was changed due to Airplane mode being implemented so you could make it seem like you were "offline" 

I also miss the system where it would ring constantly. Kinda boring having to call people and immediately be hit with "Person Unavailable". Always liked the fact you had to cross your fingers they would pick the phone instead of immediately knowing that they are offline, or the small chance they are on airplane mode.

Airplane mode should still exist, but whether I'm awake or not IRL, my phone will ring. This system, from my perspective, has only one effect and that is metagaming.

 

[1A3]

which is a clear abuse of the system to check whether rival gang/people are online or "awake"

It's not "abuse of the system", there are many reasons where it shows you as "unavailable" even though you are on the server such as having no phone and also many reasons where it rings even when you aren't available eg dead/restrained etc. It also gives a way in RP to MOSTLY tell if people are awake.

Also this isn't metagaming since it's a way in RP (not OOC) to check whether someone may be online.

but whether I'm awake or not IRL, my phone will ring

IRL that would depend on if you have airplane mode/do not disturb/silent mode/the phone off etc

 

[Elakin]

It's not "abuse of the system", there are many reasons where it shows you as "unavailable" even though you are on the server such as having no phone and also many reasons where it rings even when you aren't available eg dead/restrained etc. It also gives a way in RP to MOSTLY tell if people are awake.

Also this isn't metagaming since it's a way in RP (not OOC) to check whether someone may be online.

IRL that would depend on if you have airplane mode/do not disturb/silent mode/the phone off etc

What was wrong with the old system? It makes absolutely zero sense to me. I can understand the unavailability with cell service and airplane mode as that's.. sensible.

I,, and presumably 90% of the waking population, don't turn my phone off or throw it into a well when I go to sleep, why would my phone instantly become available?

The biggest question I have is why do we need a way to tell if someone is online or awake? In RP you would only know by receiving a response or seeing the person around.

Beforehand you knew if someone was awake, because the ringing stopped and the phone was answered. If it wasn't, they either didn't pick up or weren't online. It wasn't as clear cut as they are or aren't awake, which influences how people react. Now it's "unavailable, not awake" or "it rang so they're obviously in city". It makes absolutely no sense and was a far better system before it was changed to this?

 

[Harry Catraz]

as a frequent meta gamer and member of the hop on squad

-1

(its a joke)

 

[1A3]

I can understand the unavailability with cell service and airplane mode

Then you understand the unavailability with being offline showing as "unavailable" since the person could technically just be offline OR they could be online with no cell service (or many other things)? Having it show "available" when you are offline then it showing "unavailable" whilst you are online but have no cell service would make literally no sense.

The biggest question I have is why do we need a way to tell if someone is online or awake? In RP you would only know by receiving a response or seeing the person around.

Why not? IRL you would know if someone has their phone on or not. The RP reason for it showing as unavailable when you are offline is that you turn your phone off when you go to sleep, whether you do that IRL or not is unrelated. The concerns you stated were already discussed within the dev team before the change even went in and wouldn't of gone in if it was too damaging, due to the many occasions where it can show the inverse state it was classed as fine.

I,, and presumably 90% of the waking population, don't turn my phone off or throw it into a well when I go to sleep, why would my phone instantly become available?

That's a bit over the top, most people probably have do not disturb enabled whilst they are asleep so they don't get non-important notifications.

It wasn't as clear cut as they are or aren't awake, which influences how people react. Now it's "unavailable, not awake" or "it rang so they're obviously in city"

As I already said it's not a solid way to check if someone is/isn't available since there's multiple reasons where it says "unavailable" whilst you are in-game and also many times when it rings when you are in-game but not necessarily "available".

 

[Elakin]

As I already said it's not a solid way to check if someone is/isn't available since there's multiple reasons where it says "unavailable" whilst you are in-game and also many times when it rings when you are in-game but not necessarily "available".

With this, the vast majority of the time, people "chill" or are typically in areas with cell service, aside from niche scenarios. Even fewer times (I imagine almost nobody uses it) do people use airplane mode, again other than perhaps when in meetings for people such as The Firm, or The Lost.

 

Why not? IRL you would know if someone has their phone on or not. The RP reason for it showing as unavailable when you are offline is that you turn your phone off when you go to sleep, whether you do that IRL or not is unrelated. The concerns you stated were already discussed within the dev team before the change even went in and wouldn't of gone in if it was too damaging, due to the many occasions where it can show the inverse state it was classed as fine.

Would looking at the playerlogs to se whose online be the same, considering I could just ring someone to check their online status? These are the same thing. In RP, if I was my character and had no OOC perception, it would make sense that unavailability does not necessarily mean not online. But sadly we are all real people and this is a game. If you do not want people using OOC information to influence their actions, then implementing a method of almost guaranteeing someone is online just because their phone actually rang seems a step backwards from a system that was never broken?

The issue is stuff like this, which ahs quickly become horrifically boring and is a clear way of someone spamming your phone to check whether you are online, doing it to every member of a group to gauge how many numbers are available so they can decide whether or not to act aggressively or defensively.

What's ever the point of, as an example, in-game scouting out to gauge how many people are available from any given faction, when you can just ring them for 1 second each and know immediately?

 

[1A3]

What's ever the point of, as an example, in-game scouting out to gauge how many people are available from any given faction, when you can just ring them for 1 second each and know immediately?

You are once again completely missing the point, just because the phone rings doesn't mean the person isn't busy and them being unavailable doesn't mean they aren't online

 

[Elakin]

You are once again completely missing the point, just because the phone rings doesn't mean the person isn't busy and them being unavailable doesn't mean they aren't online

Explain to me like I'm 5 please.

The phone rings - they are online.
The phone doesn't ring - There's a near certainty they are offline, and a small chance they are without cell service or on airplane mode.

Just because it isn't a 100% accurate method, doesn't justify how silly it is to receive consistent spam calls for 1 ring on unknown numbers to gauge who is around and  influence the next move a group will make. 

I would say you have missed my point. Please respond to this, mainly the very last question with more details than I am ‘missing the point’ as I am curious to hear your thoughts on that as an example scenario? Scouting should be an IC thing that is methodical and risky. Not spamming your entire phonebook.

The issue is stuff like this, which has quickly become horrifically boring and is a clear way of someone spamming your phone to check whether you are online, doing it to every member of a group to gauge how many numbers are available so they can decide whether or not to act aggressively or defensively.


What's ever the point of, as an example, in-game scouting out to gauge how many people are available from any given faction, when you can just ring them for 1 second each and know immediately?

 

[1A3]

The phone rings - they are online.

Correct however they could be arrested/dead or busy doing their own stuff etc.

The phone doesn't ring - There's a near certainty they are offline

It's not a "near certainty" that they are offline, they could be online or offline.

 

[Elakin]

Correct however they could be arrested/dead or busy doing their own stuff etc.

Not really relevant - they are online and this, whilst you say it's not, is OOC information as you wouldn't know whether someone is available because their phone rings once.

It's not a "near certainty" that they are offline, they could be online or offline.

They could be offline or online, yes. But the chances they are in a small area out of the city with no service are slim, and the chance of them using airplane mode are even slimmer.

You've also ignored my question at the bottom of my previous message and I'm really curious to understand your opinion on the "quality of RP" that this encourages. The act of planning and conducting in-game scouting, with the risk that comes with it (also an avenue of further RP), is now absolutely pointless now you can just ding everyone on your phone for 1 second each and know whether they are available with near perfect accuracy aside from a few niche exceptions.

Please tell me why this is "better" than it was before, and why you're so defensive about it because I am really trying to understand how this benefits the opportunities for RP rather than hinders it.
 

Also - I understand you guys are doing this for free and off the back of your own time and want only the best for the longevity of RPUK - I mean no ill intent with this discussion even if I sound somewhat argumentative, I just want to understand better your opinions on what I feel is only a step backwards in server mechanics/the use of what I would consider OOC information.

 

[Will Cheverall]

+1 Makes sense 

 

[1A3]

Not really relevant - they are online and this, whilst you say it's not, is OOC information as you wouldn't know whether someone is available because their phone rings once.

It's not OOC information since it's a way in RP to know, also as I've already said the person won't necessarily be "available".

They could be offline or online, yes. But the chances they are in a small area out of the city with no service are slim, and the chance of them using airplane mode are even slimmer.

No signal & airplane are only two of the many reasons where it can show as unavailable.

What's ever the point of, as an example, in-game scouting out to gauge how many people are available from any given faction, when you can just ring them for 1 second each and know immediately?

With the phone you wouldn't know that they are all on their turf/busy etc all you'd know is that they might be online.

 

[Elakin]

I'll be completely and utterly honest, as respectfully as possible.

I honestly don't think any of your responses show in any way how this system is at all needed let alone better than it was prior to the change. 

I cannot fathom why we would need a method of online checking in-RP (even if, as you've said it's not 100% accurate, it's pretty damn close).

 

[Samuel Shire]

Tbh if I am trying to have a relaxed time in the city I either phone into aeroplane or throw it in the glovebox as I get inundated with calls non stop it's a nuciance sometimes, but people used to call me and I would have 40 missed calls because I wasent online but it rang, atleast now they ring once and send a message instead

If you feel someone is useing the system to pank call you to check if your about or not so they can meta know your there and you know who it is, I'd suggest a report instead of having them have to revert a change

If it was a issue I can imagine it will be a very small group of players doing things like this and would get picked up through the reporting system pretty quickly, (example - you have 10 missed calls and the 11th as you log in rings through then a rival group appear on your turf, well we could asume they were abusing a system and would be dealt with)

Ps.

Pretty sure there are some rather large areas where you don't get signal

 

[Yelanis]

100% +1 

Been away for four months and the night I come back people are pinging me on my phone to see if I'm about. All this allows is for the caller to determine if people are around, which can heavily influences roleplay and "pushes" in big gang fights. 

Go back to the old system - A mechanic where it constantly rings and leaves people in the unknown, is better than a system people are using to "metagame" but in game. Go and scout like people should - eliminates half the roleplay.

 

[avaster]

yep