Temporarily Remove AFK Kick/Increase AFK Timer

[Antollyme]

Something I've considered a possible idea to help bring back up the player numbers on the server is to temporarily remove the AFK kick or increase the timer to 30 minutes.

The thought process is, currently the player count is not reaching max capacity and the average player-count has been declining. A server with a high capacity but low live count could be considered a drawback to a person looking for a server to start playing on (That would be my thought process anyway). The Kick was a good tool back in the days when the server was at full capacity and people were queuing to get onto the server, now it kicks players off even when the server still has another 130 slots available (arbitrary example)

Ideally it would be useful if the AFK kick only kicked in if the server hit max capacity.

I understand that this technically means you lie to a person looking to join a new server by inflating the currently active players, (e.g. 260 active players with 40 AFK),  but that lie I think is a reasonable trade off to attempt to get new players onto the server.

I cant say for sure this idea would work, but I think it would be a nice idea to try out.

Just examples of the data showing RPUK doesn't hit max capacity:
From the last week, average player count from the 18:00 restart to midnight that night, starting at 150 on the 26th, peaking at 217 30th (week after Christmas so not exactly a fair example)

From the last month, average player count from the entire day, starting at 102 on the 03rd, peaking at 104 10th.

From the last year, average player count from a 2 week daily period, peaking at 125 over a period of 20/07/2023-03/08/2023 and a decline to the lowest of 85 over period of 23/11/2023-07/12/2023

These statistics aren't great over all (I know the dev team has better statistics to get a more accurate measure of the servers popularity), especially as the main playable hours for RPUK are after people get home from work to play, which shows in the first set of statistics, player count average is much higher if you don't factor in the full day, but that 6 hour play time is still leaving plenty of room and if there's a want to get attention from non UK time-zones, these daily averages still matter.

(just for reference encase its on someones mind, I personally have been kicked by the AFK timer less that 5 times since its inception, so this isn't coming from a place of personal upset)

So in summery, I think it would be a worth while experiment to either remove the timer, double it to 30 minutes (I cant see why someone would be afk for longer than that and still have the desire to remain on the server. They would also die from hunger/thirst at a certain point) or have the AFK timer kick in only when the servers full. Once/if the server is back in a position where queues start to form, reintroduce the timer. 

 

[1A3]

In my opinion the player count should represent the amount of people actively playing, 15 minutes + the warning is way more than enough time to return and do some kind of action to not be afk kicked.

 

[Neovo]

I think this would be very counter-productive for the server. If you are worried about active player count then reduce the max slots to a number we previously had.

When there was a queue to get on the server is when the server was at its best, as anyone in queue had the full intention of making the most of their time on the server. It also creates a hype illusion to log on as if you don’t log on straight away you might be at risk of missing out.

Having no AFK kick just promotes people logging on and doing fuck all imo, which is basically a fake number for the player count anyway.

 

[Antollyme]

In my opinion the player count should represent the amount of people actively playing, 15 minutes + the warning is way more than enough time to return and do some kind of action to not be afk kicked.

The premise of my suggestion is that, that is understood, however inflating the number, and basically lying to joining players, gives the idea the server is more active than it actually is, and as a results becomes more active with newer players coming to join. The knock on effect could result in the server becoming more active. e.g there was 130ish players on the server yesterday and 5 of them police. Server was a waste land. Having an influx of new players, running around and exploring thinking the server is more active than it is, in turn could result new players after the initial new players coming on and seeing a more lively server with lots of newer people running around. (I agree with you 15 minutes is plenty of time, but its not the point of the suggestion. If the server was constantly full and the suggestion was to up the AFK timer, I would agree with you, its pointless.)

I think this would be very counter-productive for the server. If you are worried about active player count then reduce the max slots to a number we previously had.

When there was a queue to get on the server is when the server was at its best, as anyone in queue had the full intention of making the most of their time on the server. It also creates a hype illusion to log on as if you don’t log on straight away you might be at risk of missing out.

Having no AFK kick just promotes people logging on and doing fuck all imo, which is basically a fake number for the player count anyway.

That is exactly what I'm suggesting. The illusion of active players, in turn may bring active players. Those new active players interact with the already existing player base, (who tend to be bored and sit at establishments like pubs or mechanic shops talking) and the new-new active players then interact with the new players running around trying to find their grips with things.

My suggestion, imo, doesn't currently bring a negative. The server doesn't hit its capacity and as the statistics indicate, the server restart of 18:00 when the majority of the active player base play, also doesn't hit capacity. If as a result of this suggestion the server did start hitting max capacity, then I would suggest the idea of introducing the AFK ONLY when the server is full, allowing for this suggestion/experiment to still work.

 

[Gordon2]

Imagine having to ban people for botting in FiveM haha. 

 

[Neovo]

That is exactly what I'm suggesting. The illusion of active players, in turn may bring active players. Those new active players interact with the already existing player base, (who tend to be bored and sit at establishments like pubs or mechanic shops talking) and the new-new active players then interact with the new players running around trying to find their grips with things.

My suggestion, imo, doesn't currently bring a negative. The server doesn't hit its capacity and as the statistics indicate, the server restart of 18:00 when the majority of the active player base play, also doesn't hit capacity. If as a result of this suggestion the server did start hitting max capacity, then I would suggest the idea of introducing the AFK ONLY when the server is full, allowing for this suggestion/experiment to still work.

Again I don't really believe it works that way, or to not enough of an extent to retain new players by 'boosting' player count from AFK players. As when people go around the city in game and see not a single person within half an hour of driving around apart from at AE/Tirenutz/Kraken AFK VR Chatting (no disrespect to them places) there isn't much motivation to stay on and therefore have a higher player count. Recently I've seen an influx of new players, who have all mentioned it in the RPUK discord chat that a high number of players are online but they can't find anyone in game, and now a few have already left to other servers unknown to me.

In 2023 there was a rumour going round that the server had botted player count numbers which people genuinely believed, this would just be a reskinned version of that but with real AFK people for the sake of a few extra numbers on the FiveM menu.

A suggestion has popped up to make the 8pm restart a thing again and for me it kinda goes hand in hand with this issue imo after discussions with people in the discord chat etc. Me personally I'd say lower the max player count for the reasons already stated (along with others not mentioned such as server/player performance) and also change 6pm restart back to 8pm. I feel like these changes would remedy this issue instead.

 

[Bleu]

A suggestion has popped up to make the 8pm restart a thing again and for me it kinda goes hand in hand with this issue imo after discussions with people in the discord chat etc. Me personally I'd say lower the max player count for the reasons already stated (along with others not mentioned such as server/player performance) and also change 6pm restart back to 8pm. I feel like these changes would remedy this issue instead.

I know this thread isnt specifically about 8pm restart / lower player count and more to do with numbers on the server however I have to 100% agree with this comment here, the server struggles massively if it gets near max pop anyway and with that not happening anymore lowering the max playercount + the 8pm restarts could be a very positive change and make the server feel more alive again.

 

[1A3]

however inflating the number, and basically lying to joining players, gives the idea the server is more active than it actually is

That is exactly what I'm suggesting. The illusion of active players, in turn may bring active players.

So you are basically suggesting that we bot the player count by allowing people to AFK for longer? I refuse to let that happen especially noting how much we get accused of botting it already (which for clarification we don't).

My suggestion, imo, doesn't currently bring a negative.

It allows people to be afk for longer which would likely result in un-needed queues and people abusing it to gain way more patrol hours/paychecks etc. The main reasons for me adding it was to remove the need for staff to manually check whether people are AFK and to prevent people abusing being AFK for the reasons I just mentioned.

I would suggest the idea of introducing the AFK ONLY when the server is full

So you want to allow people to be able to be AFK for an unlimited amount of time when the server isn't full... that just completely wrecks the point of having AFK kick in the first place.

 

[Antollyme]

So you are basically suggesting that we bot the player count by allowing people to AFK for longer?

Can't cant possible understand how you can compare, "Allow players to stay on the server AFK longer" with 'actively using unmanned accounts to boost a servers player number'. Don't put words in my mouth thank you.

It allows people to be afk for longer which would likely result in un-needed queues and people abusing it to gain way more patrol hours/paychecks etc. The main reasons for me adding it was to remove the need for staff to manually check whether people are AFK and to prevent people abusing being AFK for the reasons I just mentioned.

I remember the days both as staff and dev prior to the introduction of the auto AFK kick, and it was not nearly as bad as you are putting across (The main benefit for the auto AFK kick was because the server got full and staff had to spend a decent amount of time ensuring it was only active players playing as it was unfair to those in the queue) . I've already mentioned its a useful tool, but the suspension of that tool for a set time, could bring the benefits I'm attempting to convey.

So you want to allow people to be able to be AFK for an unlimited amount of time when the server isn't full... that just completely wrecks the point of having AFK kick in the first place.

Precisely. This idea doesn't suggest removing the AFK kick permanently. It suggest the suspension of it to allow for an "experiment" to occur that may result in the boosting of new players seeing a "popular server" and in turn, they themselves making the server popular.

Again I don't really believe it works that way, or to not enough of an extent to retain new players by 'boosting' player count from AFK players. As when people go around the city in game and see not a single person within half an hour of driving around apart from at AE/Tirenutz/Kraken AFK VR Chatting (no disrespect to them places) there isn't much motivation to stay on and therefore have a higher player count. Recently I've seen an influx of new players, who have all mentioned it in the RPUK discord chat that a high number of players are online but they can't find anyone in game, and now a few have already left to other servers unknown to me.

Ultimately however, imo that comes from an already existing player viewpoint. New players joining, join and go to those hotpots, interact with people then move on as they still have plenty to learn/do. Newer players than them seeing the new players running around then could get that knock on effect.

I've never once stated that "this will work", I'm simply suggesting to try it out and see if it does. It brings no harm to the server if it is done. (botting accusations aren't something worth worrying about. Its the next thing in a long list of attempts to tarnish the name that never work and the farming of paychecks also doesn't matter as the economy is so inflated, the paychecks are nothing compared to what the average person can make on the server. It wouldn't even be noticeable [it wasn't back before the AFK kick was a thing].)

A suggestion has popped up to make the 8pm restart a thing again and for me it kinda goes hand in hand with this issue imo after discussions with people in the discord chat etc. Me personally I'd say lower the max player count for the reasons already stated (along with others not mentioned such as server/player performance) and also change 6pm restart back to 8pm. I feel like these changes would remedy this issue instead.

Only issue I see with lowering player cap, is that already there's a considerably amount of people who log on just to sit a chat at set establishments doing basically nothing rather than going out and making story-lines. Lowering the cap could result in those players doing the same thing, create a queue, only for the people who potentially waited 30 minutes to get into the server to realize the server is dead quiet making them more frustrated than before starting.

 

[Jack Wiltshire]

I honestly find a lot of responses to these suggestions worrying at times. It's often really, really simple stuff to understand.

@Antollyme is CLEARLY proposing a very simple test. 

Split testing/Multi Variant testing allows everyone's assumptions to be put to the test regardless of opinion.

If the suggestion was to blindly, with no data make a permanent change removing the AFK timer, it'd be a -1.

But that's not what is being suggested is it gentlemen?

The OG/Veteran, who clearly has more experience than the majority of the people misunderstanding his post is proposing a simple test of removing the AFK timer and gather data if the numbers of new players increase, you will then be able to measure retention rate of newly acquired players. 

@1A3 - a very simple script, as you know as a developer can easily put a cap on salary farm and on duty time without kicking from the server. Have you even thought about pulling the data of how many relogins happen shortly after an AFK kick and the avg time between afk kick and relog?

The above point, is far simpler and less energy consuming than accusing someone of asking you to bot a server...

When I need to grab a snack in real life, or go take a shit (I often enjoy a nice long 15+ min poop, strongly recommend) I emote my character to do that said activity. There's really not much harm done.

 

[1A3]

a very simple script, as you know as a developer can easily put a cap on salary farm and on duty time without kicking from the server.

Okay? There's no point in doing that when people shouldn't be sat AFK for a long duration anyway. The current code fixes both issues.

The above point, is far simpler and less energy consuming than accusing someone of asking you to bot a server...

It's not an accusation? He literally stated in response to Neovo's post (the one that said "Having no AFK kick just promotes people logging on and doing fuck all imo, which is basically a fake number for the player count anyway.") that it was exactly what he was suggesting:

That is exactly what I'm suggesting. The illusion of active players, in turn may bring active players.

"The illusion of active players" is pretty much equivalent to botting the player count with AFK players

 

[Antollyme]

Okay? There's no point in doing that when people shouldn't be sat AFK for a long duration anyway. The current code fixes both issues.

It's not an accusation? He literally stated in response to Neovo's post (the one that said "Having no AFK kick just promotes people logging on and doing fuck all imo, which is basically a fake number for the player count anyway.") that it was exactly what he was suggesting:

"The illusion of active players" is pretty much equivalent to botting the player count with AFK players

That's fair enough. Just thought it was worth a suggestion. Thanks for reviewing it anyways. Appreciate the responses.