Warning Shots

[angellfall]

An Orca is landing at military compound, with no idea of anything happening down there. At 2-5m from the ground the police open fire,with some bullets hitting the heli and others coming scarily close. The heli moves to a good distance away and climbs to minimum lawful altitude where he continues to recieve shots.

That right there is the problem what i currently have with rebels: Someone is shooting at me, or bullets are hitting right next to me. I dont care i just stand still like a terminator, because if they kill me its RDM. Why i should care about the gunfight around me even if i clearly hear the sounds of guns and see the tracers.

IF someone is shooting at you in helicopter it is then down to you if you wanna get involved or leave the area. Making choices in character. That is called roleplay. 

 

[Rossss]

That right there is the problem what i currently have with rebels: Someone is shooting at me, or bullets are hitting right next to me. I dont care i just stand still like a terminatro, because if they kill me its RDM. Why i should care about the gunfight around me even if i clearly hear the sounds of guns and see the tracers.

IF someone is shooting at you in helicopter it is then down to you if you wanna get involved or leave the area. That is called roleplay.

I agree with the first paragraph, but if i'm hovering at 151m and people are saying i'm disturbing their rp, it would be more disturbing to land.

About a post earlier saying warning shots are "initiation", I disagree, how can bullets be quality roleplay?

 

[angellfall]

I agree with the first paragraph, but if i'm hovering at 151m and people are saying i'm disturbing their rp, it would be more disturbing to land.

About a post earlier saying warning shots are "initiation", I disagree, how can bullets be quality roleplay?

Bullets can be quality roleplay. You are now thinking that roleplay is only the part when you are trowing jokes at each other. Roleplay is all what happens in character. Its more straight for police and obviously rebels abuse this fact, but still.

If there is police operation on that hill flying a helicopter in might be a cause why 40 officers just mounted on their vehicles and left the area. It might be a reason why a gunfight broke out. It might be a reason why a hostage got released. People just tend to forget this as THAT is roleplay. Speaking to other is ofcourse vital part of it, but even more so is the all activity what comes from that speaking. There are misunderstandings there are some stuff what someone does not hear. That is part of life and that is also playing a vital part in our virtual world of altis.

You affecting a lives of others in server is the thing why we all play here. For a gameplay mechanical reasons obviously we have rules like RDM, VDM etc. Imagine, if police would be able to track down gunresidues? If we could conduct real investigations, we might not have those rules on place. However now you disagree with that in environment like altis where gusn are normal and radio communications are not, we cannot use the only mean of communication what we have. There is NO way we could communicate with that helicopter better than issuing warningshots. If we are happy where he is at there is no reason to shoot at him. However withing the current game mechanics that is the best way how to handle the situation. And lets face it. Police with a 5.56 weapon is not gonna down a helicopter from 150meters if it is moving, even if he tries.

 

[Rossss]

@angellfall There is a better way to communicate - the text messaging system, which is one of the reasons I made this topic, to suggest an implementation of a new system.

If I roleplay as a mass murderer and kill everyone on sight that isn't quality roleplay towards that person. You could apply the same concept to a helicopter, no quality roleplay towards that person.

Also, as in my scenario AR were spraying with what I think was a MK1 and earlier today NIU with 6.5

 

[angellfall]

@angellfall There is a better way to communicate - the text messaging system, which is one of the reasons I made this topic, to suggest an implementation of a new system.

If I roleplay as a mass murderer and kill everyone on sight that isn't quality roleplay towards that person. You could apply the same concept to a helicopter, no quality roleplay towards that person.

Also, as in my scenario AR were spraying with what I think was a MK1 and earlier today NIU with 6.5

Yes ofcourse. It would be even relatively simple thing to do. As you would just see if person is in helicopter if yes transmit the message to him. However developing community this big is not working like that. Even if i would be dropping the code here, it would still need ALOT of time to be implemented in a live server. Im more than sure that management is aware of the issues of the current game mechanics and I would not doubt for a second that if they could find a solution for it they would not fix it. 

However that being said, if you have good ideas about a system like that and how it could be made and how it would work im also more than sure that the management would happily review your suggestion post. Key element here being, dont underline the issue, underline the solution.

Meanwhile we just need to coop with what we have... 

 

[LeeA]

Come up with the solution then. Dont expect management to come up with it for you. The rule is 300m (above main cities) but other than that it is 150m for the law. We dont know how high you are either, so if you look to be low then warning shots will be fired. 

(2.13) Please keep all aviation 300m above any greenzone or Kavala, Athira & Pyrgos unless landing in a marked landing area. (This is to make sure any roleplay is not disturbed).

The main reason for people giving warning shots is when someone could be seen to be spotting in a gun fight etc

 

[Rossss]

Solution - Add a code which when you ANPR a heli with tazer/binoculars it shows who's in it for radio comms only.

For reference, here's what @RuTHLeSS INFOposted a few days ago:

"Spiking a vehicle isn`t intiation, there has to be some sort of Verbal intiationtaking place before any bang bang of some sort."

 

[Zeito]

What about the use of flare rounds to tell helicopters to leave? Unlikely to damage the helicopter, much more visible.

They tend not to be used in any other situation either, so it should be pretty clear that they are for the chopper.

 

[John Pickle]

An ANPR system would be wonderful to have. It could show the PILOT / COPILOT name, aswell as their distance from you -> target.

However, if the pilot is going to enter restricted airspace, it's on THEM to initate with the police. Whenever I need/want to land in Kavala, I send a message to the police and RP as if I were speaking to the ATC there. I give them my name, my helicopter type / colour, my location and why I need permission to land. A large majority of the time, I'll receive a message back from them, either telling me "no", or some nice roleplay back telling me I can. From that point on, I keep in "contact" with ATC (whoever replied) and let them know when I'm taking off and have left the airspace.

TL;DR, RP for heli works both ways. Pilots can initiate comms through ingame mobile.

 

[Mr Eagle]

Solution - Add a code which when you ANPR a heli with tazer/binoculars it shows who's in it for radio comms only.

For reference, here's what @RuTHLeSS INFOposted a few days ago:

"Spiking a vehicle isn`t intiation, there has to be some sort of Verbal intiationtaking place before any bang bang of some sort."

I agree however, multiple rebels do the same. If a helicopter is approaching they will warning shot it to leave? So i'm confused as to what the point your making here. Because rebels do the same and it seems you're okay with that.

 

[Rossss]

What about the use of flare rounds to tell helicopters to leave? Unlikely to damage the helicopter, much more visible.

They tend not to be used in any other situation either, so it should be pretty clear that they are for the chopper.

That was pretty much exactly what was said about tracers for rebels. I like the idea as a temporary solution, but I think the above is more long term. Also would need added to police armoury though.

An ANPR system would be wonderful to have. It could show the PILOT / COPILOT name, aswell as their distance from you -> target.

However, if the pilot is going to enter restricted airspace, it's on THEM to initate with the police. Whenever I need/want to land in Kavala, I send a message to the police and RP as if I were speaking to the ATC there. I give them my name, my helicopter type / colour, my location and why I need permission to land. A large majority of the time, I'll receive a message back from them, either telling me "no", or some nice roleplay back telling me I can. From that point on, I keep in "contact" with ATC (whoever replied) and let them know when I'm taking off and have left the airspace.

TL;DR, RP for heli works both ways. Pilots can initiate comms through ingame mobile.

For the ANPR thing, I think its a great idea however instead of distance to it, show its altitude. Then if they are too low just add pilot to wanted list (in rp they can sign out a helicopter from the hangar).

I agree however, multiple rebels do the same. If a helicopter is approaching they will warning shot it to leave? So i'm confused as to what the point your making here. Because rebels do the same and it seems you're okay with that.

I haven't seen a rebel giving warning shots to a police heli for ages. However I think the same principles apply, but the police are more likely to move away at the sign of warning shots

 

[Mr Eagle]

That was pretty much exactly what was said about tracers for rebels. I like the idea as a temporary solution, but I think the above is more long term. Also would need added to police armoury though.

For the ANPR thing, I think its a great idea however instead of distance to it, show its altitude. Then if they are too low just add pilot to wanted list (in rp they can sign out a helicopter from the hangar).

I haven't seen a rebel giving warning shots to a police heli for ages. However I think the same principles apply, but the police are more likely to move away at the sign of warning shots

I mean rebel to rebel. Like you deem to believe that police can't give civ's warning shots but civ's can give other civ's warning shots? I'm confused as to the point you're making here.

 

[Zeito]

That was pretty much exactly what was said about tracers for rebels. I like the idea as a temporary solution, but I think the above is more long term. Also would need added to police armoury though.

For the ANPR thing, I think its a great idea however instead of distance to it, show its altitude. Then if they are too low just add pilot to wanted list (in rp they can sign out a helicopter from the hangar).

I would say with tracers the downside is they can be hard to spot particularly in daytime, especially if the pilot isn't looking for them. Flare Rounds should be much more visible, plus at night time it's like a big firework.

Is there a pistol variant for the Rebels though? As much as I love them, I feel giving them MX 3GLs or Katiba 3GLs could end poorly if they somehow got a hold of HE rounds via some glitch. Though everyone should know better than to go racking off HE grenades.

 

[Rossss]

The main point i'm making is I believe shooting helicopters down after warning shots is usually RDM. 

The point of the topic is to explain the problems and try to fix them and gather opinions

 

[Rossss]

I would say with tracers the downside is they can be hard to spot particularly in daytime, especially if the pilot isn't looking for them. Flare Rounds should be much more visible, plus at night time it's like a big firework.

Is there a pistol variant for the Rebels though? As much as I love them, I feel giving them MX 3GLs or Katiba 3GLs could end poorly if they somehow got a hold of HE rounds via some glitch. Though everyone should know better than to go racking off HE grenades.

I would argue it's better to go with a fix that involves interaction/communication, I don't think seeing the tracers is a problem from what i've seen

 

[Zeito]

The main point i'm making is I believe shooting helicopters down after warning shots is usually RDM. 

The point of the topic is to explain the problems and try to fix them and gather opinions

I would agree, shooting down a chopper should be RDM because there hasnt been quality RP, plus surely shooting out the tail rotor can put it into a fatal crash that could kill uninvolved parties on the ground.

Plus, if you're holding someone up for example and a vehicle approaches, you cant fire warning shots at said vehicle - that's RDM surely.

FLARES ALL ROUND! Flares = Get the fuck away

Edit: If you're in a heli, and the police shoot you down, you crash into the road/city/whatever and blow up peoples vehicles - are you guilty of VDM?

 

[John Pickle]

I would say with tracers the downside is they can be hard to spot particularly in daytime, especially if the pilot isn't looking for them. Flare Rounds should be much more visible, plus at night time it's like a big firework.

Is there a pistol variant for the Rebels though? As much as I love them, I feel giving them MX 3GLs or Katiba 3GLs could end poorly if they somehow got a hold of HE rounds via some glitch. Though everyone should know better than to go racking off HE grenades.

Hobo's do not discriminate. Hobo's do not care. Hobo's are the danger

...

For the ANPR thing, I think its a great idea however instead of distance to it, show its altitude. Then if they are too low just add pilot to wanted list (in rp they can sign out a helicopter from the hangar).

...

The reason I said distance rather than altitude, is due to my very limited knowledge of game mechanics. The distance to a target would simply be easier to implement, and should provide enough information to determine a persons height (If they're at such an angle that you can't tell their height, they're probably not within city limits, or within effective range of police weaponry).

 

[Rossss]

Edit: If you're in a heli, and the police shoot you down, you crash into the road/city/whatever and blow up peoples vehicles - are you guilty of VDM?

It's not really controllable by you  When I was training people and flying Ghosthawk we would never fire above a city, because in roleplay, people live below and helis and bullets falling isn't fun

 

[Zeito]

Hobo's do not discriminate. Hobo's do not care. Hobo's are the danger

Modify cleanup script to remove the arifle_mx_gl class instantly? Got dang hobos.

Script the titan aa ammo to do 0 damage like a big airborne rubber. It still goes boom, everyone knows to go.

Though probably way more dangerous...

 

[John Pickle]

Modify cleanup script to remove the arifle_mx_gl class instantly? Got dang hobos.

But where's the excitement in that? Just because they'd be dangerous, doesn't mean it'd be fun to see outright panic as it happens! (Not that I condone such actions, plsno ban)