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Los Santos Police Service | Public Feedback Thread


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Los Santos Police Service | Public Feedback Thread
This thread has been made to allow members of the community to share their views and opinions on the Los Santos Police Service.
This thread is out of character and welcomes positive and constructive feedback.
Please keep all feedback constructive, I have made this post to collect views to further improve the police service and public opinions.

Thanks, Supt Shepherd Kingston.

Thread will be monitored by Police Command

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For me, it's improving driving standards and how this is balanced with road related offences that civilians do. I'm sure others will have a difference of opinion, and if a majority disagree then it's not the end of the world!

Now I'm not saying everyone should be "within the constraints of the highway code". Driving to that level of degree I've done on a previous RP server and it wouldn't work with the dynamics on this type of server, however when cops are driving extremely dangerous I feel a line needs to be drawn on what standard is being expected. Having blue lights on isn't an excuse to drive dangerously ("drive to arrive" and all that) although agree there will be an increase of risk, but it depends what level the whole server considers reasonable and at what point it becomes too dangerous.

What's frustrating is I can have one cop pull me over for going too quick in my car and get a ticket and points (with points having significant impact on my characters roleplay if my hard work will see cars crushed, lost forever for a small build up of minor driving offences) and then see cops fly around corners, speeding over payments, crashing into locals, crashing into me. I get you can get corruption in the police and people who will bend the rules. However, it sets a bad example. I was driving a new player around the other day and the cops went past on the pavement, flattened 3 locals, took out a lamp post and then crashed into a house. They drove off and the person with me asked if that's how cops drive or was it stolen. It had cops in it so it wasn't stolen. They seemed a bit confused!

To confuse matters; I'm not saying police driving needs to be toned down if the general agreement is it slows down the pace of roleplay and removes fun; it is a game after all. It's more the hypocrisy of the way civilians are dealt with. If a blind eye is going to be turned on cops having minor incidents and driving around rather quickly (without a decent reason) then a looser grip on minor offences from civilians needs to be made too. Where that 'bar' sits is obviously up for debate, but I feel that will depend on what officer you ask.

Putting that aside, I've not had too many interactions with the police. Those I have had have all been decent and I have a lot of respect that you can often be outnumbered or under equipped for some tasks or incidents, but make best of the situation that you can. Just remember, it's not all about winning! Keep up the top work.

Edited by JasonO
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1 hour ago, JasonO said:

For me, it's improving driving standards and how this is balanced with road related offences that civilians do. I'm sure others will have a difference of opinion, and if a majority disagree then it's not the end of the world!

Now I'm not saying everyone should be "within the constraints of the highway code". Driving to that level of degree I've done on a previous RP server and it wouldn't work with the dynamics on this type of server, however when cops are driving extremely dangerous I feel a line needs to be drawn on what standard is being expected. Having blue lights on isn't an excuse to drive dangerously ("drive to arrive" and all that) although agree there will be an increase of risk, but it depends what level the whole server considers reasonable and at what point it becomes too dangerous.

What's frustrating is I can have one cop pull me over for going too quick in my car and get a ticket and points (with points having significant impact on my characters roleplay if my hard work will see cars crushed, lost forever for a small build up of minor driving offences) and then see cops fly around corners, speeding over payments, crashing into locals, crashing into me. I get you can get corruption in the police and people who will bend the rules. However, it sets a bad example. I was driving a new player around the other day and the cops went past on the pavement, flattened 3 locals, took out a lamp post and then crashed into a house. They drove off and the person with me asked if that's how cops drive or was it stolen. It had cops in it so it wasn't stolen. They seemed a bit confused!

To confuse matters; I'm not saying police driving needs to be toned down if the general agreement is it slows down the pace of roleplay and removes fun; it is a game after all. It's more the hypocrisy of the way civilians are dealt with. If a blind eye is going to be turned on cops having minor incidents and driving around rather quickly (without a decent reason) then a looser grip on minor offences from civilians needs to be made too. Where that 'bar' sits is obviously up for debate, but I feel that will depend on what officer you ask.

Putting that aside, I've not had too many interactions with the police. Those I have had have all been decent and I have a lot of respect that you can often be outnumbered or under equipped for some tasks or incidents, but make best of the situation that you can. Just remember, it's not all about winning! Keep up the top work.

Hi Jason, 

Thanks for providing your feedback. 

I fully understand your point, if police hold the public to a standard of driving, of which can have a significant effect on your character as you have mentioned, they should also be held to the same standard. 

I will take your feedback back to Police Command who will discuss the fine detaills, things like, do we want to be more lenient on the public or stricter on police? What disiplinary action is taken against officers driving out of line with our standards? 

Once we have met a conclusion I will post an update regarding this topic to give full transparency on how we intend to improve this. 

Thanks again, 
Supt Kingston

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I think there are a lot of cases of unnecessary swearing towards members of the public. There are cases where it is valid and realistic, "Drop the fucking gun, show me your fucking hands", but there have also been cases of "Stop driving like a fucking cunt" which seems unnecessary.

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Hello @JasonO,

Police Command have read over your feedback and made the collective decision to alter our driving standards amoungst the police and how we enforce disaplinary action against those who break them. 

A new rule will be implemented into the police:
Driving Standards - Officers are expected to obey all traffic laws, the exception to this is when you are required for part of your lawful duty where you are responding to an incident. Wanting to get to a destination quicker when it is not needed is not a valid reason to break traffic laws.  - Officers who fail to adhere to traffic laws without reasonable excuse will recieve a warning point.

We hope this helps improve the Los Santos Police Service based on the feedback you have provided, we aim to implement this change as soon as possible. 
I expect there to be a transition period where officers try to break what may have been bad habit so I ask you to please to allow reasonable time before expecting to see noticable change. 

If this is still an issue in the future please feel free to provide more feedback. 

Thanks again, 
Supt Kingston
 

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Only thing I can say since I spend 99% of my time as a medic is that please when you jump on our freq to ask for medical assistance, actually give us time to respond.

I can’t tell you the amount of times we’ve had officers jump on radio and either interrupt our comms or shout for assistance again and again if we don’t answer within 3 seconds. 
I’ve also had times where multiple officers have requested help for the exact same scene so multiple units get dispatched unnecessarily. A bit of communication and agreement on who will contact us beforehand would go along way in terms of our already limited resource allocation. 

Please bear in mind there’s a high likelihood we are mid RP with a patient when you ask for us and we can’t respond instantly.

Edited by Chris Atlas
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Chris Atlas | Critical Care Paramedic | Training & Recruitment

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So I have had a few times I've had it where I was robbing a shop and roleplaying I was an employee, only to be met by a gun pointed at my face or a taser pointed at my chest, whilst I didn't even have a weapon out and was being friendly. I think it should be looked into that roleplay situations don't instantly get shut down by a 9mm towards the head of someone trying to roleplay.

Besides that, I think communication should be promoted way more, not internally, but also with external factions like the NHS. There are times where people in the police have no idea what's going on or why it's going on, and then have to act on it. Same thing with the NHS, I have had a few times where I had multiple units coming in the channel to ask for medical assistance for the same situation.

As for the last point, I think this should be expected from me as people know I love to complain about it. I think there should be more attention to the female members of the police. For months now females do now own a DSU uniform at all, CID females don't have ballistic vests. It makes me personally feel like I'm not welcome in the unit as it feels like there has been no effort or attention brought to the uniforms. I know it's a cosmetic item, but would you be able to call a CTSFO a CTSFO whilst he is never in uniform and only in his frontline gear? We don't even own gas masks and as CID I have been deployed multiple times in raids where gas was used, in result of me needing to seek instant medical help to get my eyesight back. Within RP this is a huge hazard and shouldn't be happening. When we (PixelHearth and I) complained about this, we got told it's too hard to find and too pricy, which is extremely concerning for me. So I did some research and found something.

I have offered a vest I found for DSU to DSU command and offered to pay half for it, and had other people (like Avion) offering to pay a part of it, yet this was either rejected or ignored. In my opinion this feels more like ignorance and no interest in the female part of the LSPS community. I asked Blake more than a month ago if I can use a certain mask for advanced DSU deployments, my response was to wait for the clothing update. Yet males didn't have to wait for that update? They can just get it but us girls have to wait for months? I'm sorry to be rude, but if you don't care about us girls, don't accept us in. If you care about us girls, start showing it more.

Edited by Kseniya
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Currently, if I rob a shop on my civ characters, it feels worthless moneywise as it, literally is. Yet, I still rob them for the roleplay you get out of doing so. I just wish that police didn't have that urgent need in their minds to win a situation as soon as possible as it just ruins the receiving end of the RP. As said above if you RP as an employee and no proof is presented that you are the one robbing the shop, you shouldn't realistically be searched. For example, if a shop robbery is reported IRL and someone dresses as an employee and "pretends" they work there. The police wouldn't search that person. I know this would get abused just like the "I HAVE A HEART CONDITION DONT TASE ME", but realistically and overall police just need to pipe down sometimes and accept loss. You'll notice if you watch UK police TV shows that if a pursuit they're is too dangerous for the officers, they cancel it. I've seen many officers driving at excessive speeds on the wrong side of the road, without even their lights on sometimes. Whilst as a police officer, I understand that silent approaches are a thing, but with a silent approach you need to be very careful as to where you are driving as not only the criminal doesn't know you are coming, but nor do the innocent people on the road!

 

Another quick issue I've seen is a lot of police officers not knowing road laws themselves. I once got pulled over for "running a red light" when I turned right. (there was no sign saying I couldn't). We had to get a higher up to confirm to the police officer that the turn was lawful. 

 

Mainly, just please don't have the dying urge to win a situation. It really ruins the RP sometimes.

One extra thing, bladed article law needs to be confirmed and understood by more officers as S139 Paragraph 4 states that if you have a lawful reason to carry the bladed article then the charge is void, however as I roleplay as an apple picker, I still get my knife taken by some officers. However some do not. Very annoying that officers interpret laws differently.

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Hello @Kseniyaand @Chris Atlas, I will be breaking down my response to your feedback in two sections. 

Section 1, Medic & Police Radio Communications, applicable to both your feedback

Section 2, Roleplay being shutdown, applicable to Ksenyia's feedback

Section 3, Female Cosmetics within the police, applicable for Ksenyia's feedback


Section 1: 

I have no doubt at times radio communication between Police - NHS can be a bit cluttered and disorginised, in terms of interupting ongoing calls, when switching frequency you cannot hear the person who is already talking, if there is, this obviously complicates the issue but it is not the sole cause, a lot can be done in order to make Police & NHS Radio Communications better I will be suggesting to Police Command we put out the following Guidelines:
When calling NHS for assistance, use the following guide

  • Decide out of the officers on scene who will call NHS
  • Selected officer switches to NHS Freq, waits 5 seconds for any potential ongoing transmitions to finish
  • State your call, example - " CO9 to AS Units, we have 1 times male with a stab wound at life invader, requesting assistance when possible " 
  • Wait for reply
  • Acknowledge reply and make it clear what freq you are returning to should NHS need to contact you

Section 2:

Police shutting down roleplay, I am not disagreeing that it happens although I would personally say the problem is not " Police shutting down roleplay " but " Player is shutting down roleplay " Ultimately Police Command cannot make every decision for every officer and everyone must roleplay their own character, we can do our best with Senior Officers noticing when this is happening and preventing it but this cannot always be done, sometimes there is not a senior officer on scene and sometimes your just stuck with a bad roleplayer, Police Command are aware officers tend to behave better when seniors are there then when they are not, this makes it diffiuclt to prevent it all the time and disapline those doing it without evidence.

We want the Los Santos Police Service to be setting the example of roleplay across the server, as of recent we have felt the standard of the general officer has dropped, becuase of this we are reviewing our recruitment methods and looking at a more in depth and roleplay oriented recruitment method to further improve. 

If you feel a police officer has broken a police rule or the law you can follow it up ingame via the courts and within roleplay.

If you feel a police officer has given poor roleplay, you have 3 options:

  • Speak to the officer out of character
  • Report the officer on the forums
  • Report the officer to Police Command - Police Command will deal with cops with low quality roleplay

Section 3:

Female Cosmetics, this is unfortunately something out of Police Command's control, as you well know as a faction leader Ksenyia, we do not have the ability to implement anything but only suggest, not long ago Police Command and Developers had a conversation relating to new police clothing and one of our topics was lack of clothing for females, we spent a good amount of time searching for clothing that can be used for both females and males. 

We have a lot of clothing waiting to be implemented and we have been told it will be done in increments, we do not chose what gets added as we are not developers.

Whilst I fully understand your frustration Ksenyia, a frustration I expect many female officers share, comments such as " In my opinion this feels more like ignorance and no interest in the female part of the LSPS community" and  "I'm sorry to be rude, but if you don't care about us girls, don't accept us in. If you care about us girls, start showing it more." are extremely unfair, esspecially coming from someone who knows as a faction lead we have no control over this. 

Myself I have offered to purchase any police assets we want/need including vehicles, female and male cosmetics and anything else police related we may need, so to hear you say I dont show care for female officers is a bold claim, one of which I dont feel there is any substance to, we have shown no ignorance to female clothing, infact it was a priority in our chat with the developers due to females having less clothing options. 

Everyone, not just females, needs to be paitent for any assets to be added.

Hopefully this gives you the insight you required and can change your mind.

Thanks to you both for your feedback,
Supt Kingston

 

3 hours ago, Recon9 said:

I think there are a lot of cases of unnecessary swearing towards members of the public. There are cases where it is valid and realistic, "Drop the fucking gun, show me your fucking hands", but there have also been cases of "Stop driving like a fucking cunt" which seems unnecessary.

Hi Recon, 

I must say I agree with the feedback you have provided, whilst I myself have  a bad swearing habit, it is certainly something officers should try and avoid doing for no good reason. 

Currently, in addrealine filled situations like you described "Drop the fucking gun, show me your fucking hands" we consider acceptable due to the circumstance

Although things like "Stop driving like a fucking cunt" are not tolerated and officers speaking to members of the public will be punished, most of the time these situations occur out of the eyes of seniors, therefor we encourage you to contact us within roleplay to see the officer face action.

Thanks for your feedback, 
Supt Kingston

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33 minutes ago, MobExe said:

Currently, if I rob a shop on my civ characters, it feels worthless moneywise as it, literally is. Yet, I still rob them for the roleplay you get out of doing so. I just wish that police didn't have that urgent need in their minds to win a situation as soon as possible as it just ruins the receiving end of the RP. As said above if you RP as an employee and no proof is presented that you are the one robbing the shop, you shouldn't realistically be searched. For example, if a shop robbery is reported IRL and someone dresses as an employee and "pretends" they work there. The police wouldn't search that person. I know this would get abused just like the "I HAVE A HEART CONDITION DONT TASE ME", but realistically and overall police just need to pipe down sometimes and accept loss. You'll notice if you watch UK police TV shows that if a pursuit they're is too dangerous for the officers, they cancel it. I've seen many officers driving at excessive speeds on the wrong side of the road, without even their lights on sometimes. Whilst as a police officer, I understand that silent approaches are a thing, but with a silent approach you need to be very careful as to where you are driving as not only the criminal doesn't know you are coming, but nor do the innocent people on the road!

Hello @MobExeI feel I have answered this paragraph in previous responses, if you feel it has not, please feel free to contact me


 

35 minutes ago, MobExe said:

Another quick issue I've seen is a lot of police officers not knowing road laws themselves. I once got pulled over for "running a red light" when I turned right. (there was no sign saying I couldn't). We had to get a higher up to confirm to the police officer that the turn was lawful. 

Regarding this, this is a law that has been amended to suit Los Santos, per UK law you would need to wait to turn right although in Los Santos we have deemed it lawful to turn right on reds. This can be confusing to new players. 


 

37 minutes ago, MobExe said:

Mainly, just please don't have the dying urge to win a situation. It really ruins the RP sometimes.

As previously mentioned, if you think an officer has shown poor roleplay, you have 3 options:

  • Speak to the officer out of character
  • Report the officer on the forums
  • Report the officer to Police Command - Police Command will deal with cops with low quality roleplay

 

38 minutes ago, MobExe said:

One extra thing, bladed article law needs to be confirmed and understood by more officers as S139 Paragraph 4 states that if you have a lawful reason to carry the bladed article then the charge is void, however as I roleplay as an apple picker, I still get my knife taken by some officers. However some do not. Very annoying that officers interpret laws differently.

I think this spesific example could extend to any law, majority of the officers in the Los Santos Police Service have little to no Policing Knowledge expect what is taught during their training, as nice as it would be for every police officer to be on the same page and know all legislation it is a very unrealistic expectation unfortunately, ultimately these people are not police officers, just the puppeteer of a police character, people will get things wrong, some situations will be frustrating, esspecially if you know they are doing wrong. 

All I can suggest here is people are more forgiving in these cirumstances and not expect roleplay police officers to get real life policing practices correct every single time and acknowledge they too are just another player like yourself. 

Hope this helps, thanks for your feedback,
Supt Kingston

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What are people's thoughts on Police joining in on random public events during patrols eg. seeing a small party, joins in an dances with all the participants etc. It usually involves police and gang members, in reality police should be wary of them instead of having fun together with well known crime groups. The line between serious rp and "its just a game lets have fun" is  a  bit blurry there. Personally I dont mind really but it really looks unprofessional to see officers dancing around with dangerous criminals and posting them on tweedle and stuff like that. If people think "We are on the server to have fun. Just leave it" then its fine I guess. But if people think "We are a serious RP server, we should always try to provide high quality RP" then I believe the trend has to stop. If people playing police wanna have fun and join civilian events, they should switch to their civ characters instead.

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6 minutes ago, Ravenz_Go said:

What are people's thoughts on Police joining in on random public events during patrols eg. seeing a small party, joins in an dances with all the participants etc. It usually involves police and gang members, in reality police should be wary of them instead of having fun together with well known crime groups. The line between serious rp and "its just a game lets have fun" is  a  bit blurry there. Personally I dont mind really but it really looks unprofessional to see officers dancing around with dangerous criminals and posting them on tweedle and stuff like that. If people think "We are on the server to have fun. Just leave it" then its fine I guess. But if people think "We are a serious RP server, we should always try to provide high quality RP" then I believe the trend has to stop. If people playing police wanna have fun and join civilian events, they should switch to their civ characters instead.

Hello @Ravenz_Go

I think there are a lot of variables that go into things like this and wether it is a good idea to participate in such events as police or as a different character, sometimes this things can be good for police and gang relationships but also rather contradictory within the roleplay worlds story due to the constant ongoing conflict, so I completely understand your point. 

As every one of these situations can be so different, I think it is best for officers to use their discretion on a case by case basis for each situation and decide if they think it is a good idea to participate or not, rather then a set in stone rule. 

Hope this helps,
Supt Kingston

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On the matter of Police Accountability, I think myself and many other members of the public find it hard to make a complaint against a police officer.

My character, Michael Kourse, had a client who he believed was un-lawfully shot by the police. When my character wished to complain about this matter, there was no clear complaints system and mixed messages of who to contact. "Contact their Inspector" "Contact a Superintendent".

What I am asking for is a more open and accountable system for police complaints. Also, press releases from Police Command on the outcome of police complaints would also be of use to demonstrate that actually officers are held to a high standard.

This would greatly improve the public's confidence in the Los Santos Police Service.

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8 minutes ago, M said:

On the matter of Police Accountability, I think myself and many other members of the public find it hard to make a complaint against a police officer.

My character, Michael Kourse, had a client who he believed was un-lawfully shot by the police. When my character wished to complain about this matter, there was no clear complaints system and mixed messages of who to contact. "Contact their Inspector" "Contact a Superintendent".

What I am asking for is a more open and accountable system for police complaints. Also, press releases from Police Command on the outcome of police complaints would also be of use to demonstrate that actually officers are held to a high standard.

This would greatly improve the public's confidence in the Los Santos Police Service.

Agree with this. Should complaints be managed OOC or remain IC? 

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5 hours ago, M said:

What I am asking for is a more open and accountable system for police complaints. Also, press releases from Police Command on the outcome of police complaints would also be of use to demonstrate that actually officers are held to a high standard.

one day if I can get what I suggested to command we could have a proper press release stuff sorted I've already offered to be the face of our press release. however I offered during time when Command had issues so didn't expect a response. 

Wiht that I plus 1 this the police needs some sort of monthly thing so we can do like NCAs monthly only we can have like prisoners charged. Public awareness. any new news or changes within police the public needs to know. Like when sharks became officially illegal with government support that wasn't well broadcasted

Sergeant LS Police / T&R Advance Paramedic LS NHS / AVM LS NHS Search and Rescue / Ranger & Solicitor

Ex PC - Altis Police / Ex FA - Altis NHS / Ex Henchman - Poseidon

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8 hours ago, M said:

On the matter of Police Accountability, I think myself and many other members of the public find it hard to make a complaint against a police officer.

My character, Michael Kourse, had a client who he believed was un-lawfully shot by the police. When my character wished to complain about this matter, there was no clear complaints system and mixed messages of who to contact. "Contact their Inspector" "Contact a Superintendent".

What I am asking for is a more open and accountable system for police complaints. Also, press releases from Police Command on the outcome of police complaints would also be of use to demonstrate that actually officers are held to a high standard.

This would greatly improve the public's confidence in the Los Santos Police Service.

Hello @M
 

I agree something like this is needed, a set in stone system made for complaints, I think a good method would be a google form linked in game accessible at the same front desk where tickets can be paid, to prevent abuse, a discord ID would be required in order to submit a complaint. 
 

2 hours ago, Chilli said:

one day if I can get what I suggested to command we could have a proper press release stuff sorted I've already offered to be the face of our press release. however I offered during time when Command had issues so didn't expect a response. 

Wiht that I plus 1 this the police needs some sort of monthly thing so we can do like NCAs monthly only we can have like prisoners charged. Public awareness. any new news or changes within police the public needs to know. Like when sharks became officially illegal with government support that wasn't well broadcasted

Hello @Chilli

If we decide to go down the route or press releases and public announcements regarding action taken on complaints it would need to be done within roleplay, as the officer would be representing the Police Service, it would need to be a member of Police Command as we are the only people who can speak “ on behalf of the police “ 

 

I will make a request to devs for the complaint form to be linked and useable ingame and I will discuss with Police Command regarding press releases. 

 

Thanks for your suggestions,

Supt Kingston

 

 

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I've had some fun encounters playing as the police and in short dealings with them on my civ.

In terms of constructive feedback, I don't have a bad opinion of the police. I do think a bit more professionalism would be good. I agree not everything can know legislation inside and out, that's cool. I am thinking more down the lines of what some of the above have said which is:

  1. Don't drive like a muppet - sit back and ask yourself, is this realistic for a police officer? Some of the driving I see is just nuts. People in chases on empty roads crossing into the wrong direction of traffic, rather than just toning it down a touch and sticking to the correct side. This isn't the same as going on the wrong side when the suspect is also on the wrong side and calling out risk levels as appropriate. I mean just plain old reckless driving.
     
  2. Be mature and professional. Uphold the rep of the police force and act how a police officer would. It it easy to slip in and out of character in the game, but I feel when playing as a whitelisted faction, you are at risk of taking away from other people's experience. Suffered from this a lot when double crewing. This isn't easy for Police Command to tackle though in fairness.
     
  3. A way to register feedback (complaints, compliments) as suggested above. This can be via a Google form on the website or a feature implemented in-game. Currently not the easiest thing to go about, and difficult to remain anonymous. With this then civs would more easily get officers held accountable.

Hope that helps. Nothing major, just what I've picked up on when playing. I don't think the above happens all that often either, but worth emphasising to make sure good examples are set.

Edited by Hugh
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2 minutes ago, Hugh said:

I've had some fun encounters playing as the police and in short dealings with them on my civ.

In terms of constructive feedback, I don't have a bad opinion of the police. I do think a bit more professionalism would be good. I agree not everything can know legislation inside and out, that's cool. I am thinking more down the lines of what some of the above have said which is:

  1. Don't drive like a muppet - sit back and ask yourself, is this realistic for a police officer? Some of the driving I see is just nuts. People in chases on empty roads crossing into the wrong direction of traffic, rather than just toning it down a touch and sticking to the correct side. This isn't the same as going on the wrong side when the suspect is also on the wrong side and calling out risk levels as appropriate. I mean just plain old reckless driving.
     
  2. Be mature and professional. Uphold the rep of the police force and act how a police officer would. It it easy to slip in and out of character in the game, but I feel when playing as a whitelisted faction, you are at risk of taking away from other people's experience. Suffered from this a lot when double crewing. This isn't easy for Police Command to tackle though in fairness.
     
  3. A way to register feedback (complaints, compliments) as suggested above. This can be via a Google form on the website or a feature implemented in-game. Currently not the easiest thing to go about, and difficult to remain anonymous. With this then civs would more easily get officers held accountable.

Hope that helps. Nothing major, just what I've picked up on when playing. I don't think the above happens all that often either, but worth emphasising to make sure good examples are set.

Thanks for you Feedback Hugh, much appreciated. 
Supt Kingston

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Communication and common sense. 
This is going to come across like a bit of a rant, but it's because its text. I'm trying to be sincere.
There does appear to be an inherent lack of communication getting to where it needs to be. What I mean by where it needs to be, is to the opposing side of a situation. The vast majority of the time I haven't got a clue 1. why you're there. 2. What it is that you want. and 3. how I can get you to leave me alone.
What I'm met with consistently is aggression and a gun pointed in my face or some officer will try and bare faced lie to get inside our compound making assumptions that either I or maybe they don't know how the law works. 
Also individuals taking certain actions that are detrimental to situations because they haven't thought things through from the other side. 

Don't expect me, a citizen, to know exactly how many trojan you have by the number of cars or any of that bollocks, because I don't.
If you as a police officer, and in any way touch an escape vehicle outside of a bank robbery in plain view of the bank robbers expect that to be taken as an incredibly hostile action and more than enough reason for me to take action in a high tension situation. (Even though in the situation I mention specifically it was a misfire)

If you turn up outside someone's illicit location where you suspect something not so legitimate is going on, and you turn up with 10+ police vehicles and a number of trojan outside threatening to blow the doors off of a compound over "a failure to stop" don't be surprised when a massive amount of force greets you on the other side. Especially when no one is saying anything to the occupants other than "let us in or we'll blow the doors off"
If you were there for a failure to stop do you need that number of officers? 
Is resorting to taking a compound by force over a minor incident even applicable? Your suspect can't just live there forever. They have to leave eventually. 

If there's an event involving the vast majority of the major criminal organisations, maybe don't attack it when they're all still very much there and on scene. There's no reason to turn a wedding into a gunfight when you could pick them up silently afterwards, or as they come out and leave. The building had one exit which I believe was painfully discovered upon officers attempting to escape. These are dangerous, hardened criminals and they aren't going down as a group without a fight, let alone when they know you're upsetting every other criminal organisation and their dog around them. 

If a police officer approaches me and gives me what I would term "stupid" roleplay. Like "Leave the area or I'll deem you involved and shoot you." Expect to get "stupid" roleplay back. Especially from a gang member. They're going to tell you just where to go stuff yourself and they aren't going to be kind about it.
This is a roleplay server. If you haven't got the man power to arrest people that don't want to "move along citizen" and roleplay a scenario because you're too busy trying to win a gunfight then I'm afraid you should just ignore them and suck it up. The number of people killed each year because they were gawping at situations from what is as it turns out unfortunately for them not a safe distance, in the states is high.

A lot of negative situations would be avoided if the police service as a whole was less aggressive. As others have said, there's a time and a place and it's too easy to get a reaction out of the police, people's characters need to chill out and develop a little. It would be lovely to have serious roleplay drama with a police officer but it all seems far too highly strung. It's not the end of the world if a bunch of Ballas on bicycles ride past with their fingers up at you. 

One of the better things to come out of the police recently was the CID corruption. It was cool that CID officers were picking up a gang member and beating them within an inch of their life over a situation. It was exciting that you could grease the wheels of CID in the direction of other gangs for a favour for your own. It added personality to the officers involved and helped create storylines involving the police that don't just revolve around us against them or reactions to crimes

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Hello

Police Complaints:
The "hassle" of submitting a police complaint is an issue that really needs attention. I have been sat in PD for hours trying to get hold of someone to take my complaint and been told by people that can receive it that they are "busy" at one point i was handed over to a member of police command that introduced him self as "Big Dick Kingston" a rather rude guy. 

A way to resolve this would be a form at the front desk. 

But the backlash of this issue is that police is not held accountable for misconduct. 

-Chris Conway

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Something id like to mention is the stupid overuse of tasers.

In 90% of situations I get involved in as my civ character the go to response to a foot pursuit or someone getting into a car is instant taser, and it really downplays on the fun. Police officers should be abiding by their use of force and NDM's more as its just impossible to have a reasonable and fun foot pursuit these days. "You have a suspended license?" Hands up or be tazed instead of chatting and resolving the situation nicely and frankly im getting sick of it not sure about anyone else. The go to reaction to almost every offence or situation is a taser and its just silly. People who arent a threat to themselves, police or the public do not need to be subdued straight away with non lethal measures, actually chase them or use assets that we actually have available to aid in pursuits for example, sending a dog to induce fear into the civ to make them stop or to stop them by that means, or using npas to track the suspect on the ground whilst ground units catch up to them, and failing that sure a taser if its absolutely necessary. 

This seems like a rant and it is, I feel personally the more police that are joining and passing their weapons proficiency, the worse its getting for these types of situations. More just tase and shoot first, get the arrest and get on with your day, so much more fun can be made by actually having a full out vehicle and foot pursuit than just resorting to measures that would just not be done irl. 

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On 13/08/2021 at 17:12, Custard Cream said:

Something id like to mention is the stupid overuse of tasers.

In 90% of situations I get involved in as my civ character the go to response to a foot pursuit or someone getting into a car is instant taser, and it really downplays on the fun. Police officers should be abiding by their use of force and NDM's more as its just impossible to have a reasonable and fun foot pursuit these days. "You have a suspended license?" Hands up or be tazed instead of chatting and resolving the situation nicely and frankly im getting sick of it not sure about anyone else. The go to reaction to almost every offence or situation is a taser and its just silly. People who arent a threat to themselves, police or the public do not need to be subdued straight away with non lethal measures, actually chase them or use assets that we actually have available to aid in pursuits for example, sending a dog to induce fear into the civ to make them stop or to stop them by that means, or using npas to track the suspect on the ground whilst ground units catch up to them, and failing that sure a taser if its absolutely necessary. 

This seems like a rant and it is, I feel personally the more police that are joining and passing their weapons proficiency, the worse its getting for these types of situations. More just tase and shoot first, get the arrest and get on with your day, so much more fun can be made by actually having a full out vehicle and foot pursuit than just resorting to measures that would just not be done irl. 

To add to this, I've seen police officers deploy tasers from inside of their police car and while its moving. Also I've seen police use tasers on people attempting to drive vehicles which is also unsafe. Additionally, there is also an issue that police don't give proper warning about use of taser or even bother to de-escalate a situation. It seems to me that the the average police officer relies on two options alone to resolve a situation, a higher use of force or pursuing a vehicle, even when either could reasonably be avoided. 

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On 12/08/2021 at 15:16, TikTak said:

Hello

Police Complaints:
The "hassle" of submitting a police complaint is an issue that really needs attention. I have been sat in PD for hours trying to get hold of someone to take my complaint and been told by people that can receive it that they are "busy" at one point i was handed over to a member of police command that introduced him self as "Big Dick Kingston" a rather rude guy. 

A way to resolve this would be a form at the front desk. 

But the backlash of this issue is that police is not held accountable for misconduct. 

-Chris Conway

Hello @TikTak, I have already addressed this further up the thread. 

Thanks nonetheless for your input. 

 

On 13/08/2021 at 17:12, Custard Cream said:

Something id like to mention is the stupid overuse of tasers.

In 90% of situations I get involved in as my civ character the go to response to a foot pursuit or someone getting into a car is instant taser, and it really downplays on the fun. Police officers should be abiding by their use of force and NDM's more as its just impossible to have a reasonable and fun foot pursuit these days. "You have a suspended license?" Hands up or be tazed instead of chatting and resolving the situation nicely and frankly im getting sick of it not sure about anyone else. The go to reaction to almost every offence or situation is a taser and its just silly. People who arent a threat to themselves, police or the public do not need to be subdued straight away with non lethal measures, actually chase them or use assets that we actually have available to aid in pursuits for example, sending a dog to induce fear into the civ to make them stop or to stop them by that means, or using npas to track the suspect on the ground whilst ground units catch up to them, and failing that sure a taser if its absolutely necessary. 

This seems like a rant and it is, I feel personally the more police that are joining and passing their weapons proficiency, the worse its getting for these types of situations. More just tase and shoot first, get the arrest and get on with your day, so much more fun can be made by actually having a full out vehicle and foot pursuit than just resorting to measures that would just not be done irl. 

Hi @Custard Cream@M

I completely agree with you that tasers are sometimes deployed to quickly or without good reason to do so, this is something Police Command have recognised and have started cracking down on, currently our standpoint is that if someone misuses their firearm or taser they will loose their Weapons Profficency Training for 2 weeks and be required to resit it after those 2 weeks. 

This is purely speculation and something I imagine contributes towards the issue you mention, the officer may be new to the Police Service and unsure of alternative methods due to lack of experience or has had bad experiences in the past as a result of not deploying a taser.

Regardless, we hope to see this issue improve with new enforcment taking place on misuse cases although being realistic, it is likely to always be somewhat of a thing, each induvidual is required to make their own decisions and sometimes they make the wrong ones.

Hope this gives you insight into how we aim to tackle this, 
Thanks for you Feedback. 

Supt Kingston.

 

On 12/08/2021 at 14:24, Qrow said:

Communication and common sense. 
This is going to come across like a bit of a rant, but it's because its text. I'm trying to be sincere.
There does appear to be an inherent lack of communication getting to where it needs to be. What I mean by where it needs to be, is to the opposing side of a situation. The vast majority of the time I haven't got a clue 1. why you're there. 2. What it is that you want. and 3. how I can get you to leave me alone.
What I'm met with consistently is aggression and a gun pointed in my face or some officer will try and bare faced lie to get inside our compound making assumptions that either I or maybe they don't know how the law works. 
Also individuals taking certain actions that are detrimental to situations because they haven't thought things through from the other side. 

Don't expect me, a citizen, to know exactly how many trojan you have by the number of cars or any of that bollocks, because I don't.
If you as a police officer, and in any way touch an escape vehicle outside of a bank robbery in plain view of the bank robbers expect that to be taken as an incredibly hostile action and more than enough reason for me to take action in a high tension situation. (Even though in the situation I mention specifically it was a misfire)

If you turn up outside someone's illicit location where you suspect something not so legitimate is going on, and you turn up with 10+ police vehicles and a number of trojan outside threatening to blow the doors off of a compound over "a failure to stop" don't be surprised when a massive amount of force greets you on the other side. Especially when no one is saying anything to the occupants other than "let us in or we'll blow the doors off"
If you were there for a failure to stop do you need that number of officers? 
Is resorting to taking a compound by force over a minor incident even applicable? Your suspect can't just live there forever. They have to leave eventually. 

If there's an event involving the vast majority of the major criminal organisations, maybe don't attack it when they're all still very much there and on scene. There's no reason to turn a wedding into a gunfight when you could pick them up silently afterwards, or as they come out and leave. The building had one exit which I believe was painfully discovered upon officers attempting to escape. These are dangerous, hardened criminals and they aren't going down as a group without a fight, let alone when they know you're upsetting every other criminal organisation and their dog around them. 

If a police officer approaches me and gives me what I would term "stupid" roleplay. Like "Leave the area or I'll deem you involved and shoot you." Expect to get "stupid" roleplay back. Especially from a gang member. They're going to tell you just where to go stuff yourself and they aren't going to be kind about it.
This is a roleplay server. If you haven't got the man power to arrest people that don't want to "move along citizen" and roleplay a scenario because you're too busy trying to win a gunfight then I'm afraid you should just ignore them and suck it up. The number of people killed each year because they were gawping at situations from what is as it turns out unfortunately for them not a safe distance, in the states is high.

A lot of negative situations would be avoided if the police service as a whole was less aggressive. As others have said, there's a time and a place and it's too easy to get a reaction out of the police, people's characters need to chill out and develop a little. It would be lovely to have serious roleplay drama with a police officer but it all seems far too highly strung. It's not the end of the world if a bunch of Ballas on bicycles ride past with their fingers up at you. 

One of the better things to come out of the police recently was the CID corruption. It was cool that CID officers were picking up a gang member and beating them within an inch of their life over a situation. It was exciting that you could grease the wheels of CID in the direction of other gangs for a favour for your own. It added personality to the officers involved and helped create storylines involving the police that don't just revolve around us against them or reactions to crimes

Hello @Qrow

I understand your perspective and what it must be like interacting with the police sometimes, esspecially in tense and high adrenaline situations.

One thing I think is important, and an issue with both sides of conflict is that both sides rarely see each others perspective, even if they try to, they will never have experienced the situation with the same information that the actual oppositition did, from the police perspective, we may have held information on someone and not actioned it imedietely for whatever reason but then a week later when we action it, everyone is confused and irritated due to lack of information, which circles back to your point of communication. 

I 100% agree communication is an issue, personally an issue I feel is in every Faction/Group/Gang within the server and whilst it can be improved, it is highly likely it will ever be so smooth we wont have an issue at all, whilst we can provide advice and implement rules we cannot force good solid communications.

It is encouraged within the Police by senior officers to not have to deal with everything as it happens, you are able to collect intelligence and action it at a later date, esspecially if you are not equiped to deal with the issue, ultimately it comes down to common sense and officers need to use their discretion, Seniors will direct these situations when they are there but when they are not we rely that officers will make the right decision. 

Whilst I wish I could tell you we will eventually get to a stage where the police will never make the wrong decision, unfortunately we do, we have to aim to educate and improve, a constant process. 

I agree with you that officers need to allow their characters to develop and not be so robotic at times, roleplay is and always should be the focus, again this is not something we can do for officers but something they must learn themselves. 

In regards to CID Corruption, whilst some officers in the past who have been corrupt have made very good roleplay situations and stories, others have not, whilst it can be benificial, like anything, too much of it can result in a negative effect, we want to avoid a stigma other agencys have previously obtained that " All of them are corrupt " but encourage others to venture into deep stories with their characters. 

Hope this gives some insight, 
Thanks. 
Supt Kingston.

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  • 3 weeks later...

When police searches people and for example find a bag of cocaine, police just tends to read the label and be like "yep this is coke let me take it off".

If police come across people, that actually want to roleplay and sell the police a fake story for example oh its not coke its flour etc. and then go with it. I'd like to see the police take the substance back and get it examined and shit like that. You cannot possibly know that it's cocaine unless you test it.

Same goes with pharmacy robberies when you steal the bottles, powders etc., if I RP to scrape the label, how can the police know it's x substance. 

Would be more exciting I feel.

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1 hour ago, Stve said:

When police searches people and for example find a bag of cocaine, police just tends to read the label and be like "yep this is coke let me take it off".

If police come across people, that actually want to roleplay and sell the police a fake story for example oh its not coke its flour etc. and then go with it. I'd like to see the police take the substance back and get it examined and shit like that. You cannot possibly know that it's cocaine unless you test it.

Same goes with pharmacy robberies when you steal the bottles, powders etc., if I RP to scrape the label, how can the police know it's x substance. 

Would be more exciting I feel.


Hi Stve,

Thanks for your feedback. 

 

I fully understand the perspective you are providing in regards to some roleplay being shutdown, something that plays a part in this is the amount of effort each officer finds substantial enough to let you off for x, y or z. 

If the roleplay is thorough enough then the officer should take that into consideration and allow it to weigh in on the final decision making.

Something that I feel is important to put across is poor roleplay attempts are often given with the bare minimum roleplay to back up their excuse, a common example would be “ my mate/gran gave it to me, I didn’t know what it was “ 

I imagine officers that have experienced a lot of that have a bad taste in their mouth that leaves those with good roleplay excuses at a point of being instantly judged and accused. 

This is one of those situations where I cannot roleplay for everyone, I need to trust them to make the correct decisions themselves. 

If you feel the roleplay was unfair or to focused on “ winning “ record it and send it to myself or another member of police command so we can look into it. 

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