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EU Referendum Poll
- Thread starter Wetsuit
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Bad Rats
Well-known member
- Location
- Your steam account
Remain in, people seem to think that leaving the EU will fix immigration, your basically just ignoring the problem not solving it. Also the movement of people in Europe seems to benefit most people, inc me and my family. Being in the EU also helps human rights on a whole, it has set rules in place that greatly lower exploitation of people.
Both sides hype up there arguments too much anyway.
Yes there are problems with the EU but you can't fix them not being in it, why risk it?
Both sides hype up there arguments too much anyway.
Yes there are problems with the EU but you can't fix them not being in it, why risk it?
Digs
Well-known member
Tbh honest it doesn't really matter what we think, all those old biddies and relics are going to vote leave cause they all read the Daily Mail and other toilet paper rags.
For the record i'm 100% for the in camp, as how the hell are we ever going to get off this rock and out into the universe if we don't work together and stop thinking small.
For the record i'm 100% for the in camp, as how the hell are we ever going to get off this rock and out into the universe if we don't work together and stop thinking small.
Capt C
Well-known member
- Location
- Europe
Both the remain and leave campaigns have used incredibly dirty tactics in their methods that condescend and pander to the stupidity of the electorate.
I don't find it shocking anymore that people are going to be voting tomorrow on opinions they have formed based on half truths, xenophobia and utter ignorance as to what the EU actually influences in legislative policy making and key issues like the economy and immigration.
Like "Take control of our borders"
Erm yeah, after Germany, the UK was the country that most took advantage of the common market. This is to say people immigrating to other countries within the EU. What would happen if we left the EU? British citizens would be prevented from taking advantage of this and moving to work abroad, people who have worked all their lives in this country would not be able to retire to sunny Spain. English students would NOT be able to move to other EU countries and gain degrees for free. I could go on.
Less than half of immigrants that come to this country are from the EU, the rest come here from other countries on visas issued by the UK. So even the most xenophobic of you here reading this need to realise that if you are seriously going to justify voting leave on the basis of immigration, you are looking at the wrong place.
(1)
"We pay £350 million a day blah blah"
Macroeconomics - something the average person has little awareness of. The "leave camp" will want you to believe that instead, £350,000,000 every day can simply be pumped into the NHS should we leave, it isn't quite as easy, or as simple as that, and is a marketing ploy again to condescend and please the masses.
Truth is, since 1984 the UK has paid less than 1% of GDP to the EU every year, and additionally, the EU invests significantly into projects in the UK, which when factored in means we actually gain more from EU membership than not.
"They make our laws blah blah, TAKE CONTROL!"
Imagine you own a business, and you sell components abroad. All of a sudden we are not in the EU. You will have to spend £££ getting approvals for your precious item for every country you have to sell it in. This new light bulb you have created will now cost you 10 times more to sell than before. Congratulations.
The UK has had massive influence on EU legislation, which in turn is passed into UK law. Even if we left the EU, the existing laws would remain, like the one that protects victims of abuse? the myriad of laws to protect UK workers, namely the UK working time regulations. Where did that come from? Yep, you guessed it.
I have work in 2 hours and can't be bothered to put together a good argument but I will summarise:
I have seen a lot of shit from both sides of the campaign, moreso from people who want to vote to leave the EU. I hate to generalise, but a quick glance at people on my facebook shows that they are ignorant of the facts of the debate, xenophobic and like to blame the EU for all the problems. The EU is not great and has issues that I still believe can be resolved while remaining in, but for the love of god do some research before you cast your vote, you owe it to the rest of the population.
(1) www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/sn06077.pdf
- Location
- Newcastle Upon Tyne
JC Denton
Well-known member
The EU is an organisation set up to put public money into private pockets with neoliberalism the central principle of the entire system and is enshrined in the doctrine. You can see the future of the EU when you look at the turmoil throughout Europe, especially countries that have adopted the Euro. If the UK doesn't get out now, it will be dragged down with the rest of the EU in 20-30 years time when it collapses.
RestlessGamer
Well-known member
- Location
- England
Renagade_Rhys
Well-known member
Can`t wait for all of this EU shit to be over!
It`s really boring the piss out of me now!!!!!!
SGT. Renegade .
It`s really boring the piss out of me now!!!!!!
SGT. Renegade .
SPC Miller
What makes you read a hobo's title?
- Location
- Netherlands
Btw just saying.. Statica can be manupilating álways do research on the topic before you decide to vote
- Location
- Somewere
It depends on the country you live in if its better inn and out. For exsample Norway, we woud never be able to have sutch a great econemy and economic growth if we were in EU. We still have to follow some EU laws etc but over all we are better outside off EU. Tho as i am saying this is verry diffrent from country to country.
Bad Rats
Well-known member
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- Your steam account
Even if they did put public money into private pockets (which they don't) leaving the EU wouldn't fix that we are currently under rule by a Conservative government that are trying to privatize the NHS, I think people think that leaving the EU will fix all our problems but if i was to see a brexit supporter who understood that most of the facts that are utter rubbish (this is on both sides) i would most likely be able to understand why they wanted to leave.
A girl in my school was going on about how prices of houses would drop, now that's a large possibility, but immigration on the other hand won't be fixed by leaving the EU there just praying on current events.
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JC Denton
Well-known member
They do, that's what neoliberalism is about. The vast majority of grants did not go to working people, the money they take does not go back into the people that they take the money from, it does not go to local business - it funds multinational corporations and their efforts to globalise and homogenise Europe. It is true that we are currently under Conservative rule, but the Tories are pro-EU and have been the main advocates of the EU since the days of Thatcher for the reasons previously stated, the only people who benefit from the EU in real terms are the rich in society, the ones who are most affected by are the working class, the manual labourers, the call center worker, the unskilled workers in society who have seen their wages stagnate compared to the rich who do not have to worry about such things.
Immigration won't be "fixed" if we leave the EU, whatever the definition of fixed means. However it will be under our control, so instead of an inherently racist immigration system that the EU has set up, we will be able to import more skilled workers from Africa, from Asia, the Americas etc instead of giving hundreds of thousands of unskilled European immigrants priority over them.
- Location
- United Kingdom
If you believe in core European values of democracy, transparency and openness, leaving the EU might be the best thing, as this referendum is the only democratic say you ever had in the EU, and ever will have.
The only thing we plebs may vote for is the European Parliament. Which is a bit of a misnomer, because the EU Parliament has no meaningful power. They may not initiate legislation. Instead, this power resides with the European Commission, a bunch of appointed people that hold prefers to hold their important discussions behind closed doors, and another undemocratic club called the Council of the European Union has a final say in what gets passed and what not. If you’re worried about US presidential candidate Donald Trump, then at least keep two things in mind: The people in the US can decide if they vote him in or not, and the US can impeach him if he turns out to be a disaster to the country. Neither of these democratic control mechanisms are in place for our glorious leader, Jean-Claude Juncker.
The EU has had a lot of time to reform and become more democratic, more transparent and more accountable to the public, but the opposite has happened. They have become more undemocratic, more bureaucratic and more opposed to those very fundamental European values they claim to uphold. A prime example of this is that when countries had a referendum about the EU constitution and several voted against, the EU just ignored these results and implemented the Lisbon treaty (nearly identical text) anyway. The same thing is done with international “trade agreements”: If they are shot down due to protests (ACTA, PIPA, SOPA, etc), they simply try again with a different name until they get it through.
If you’re not financially secure and don’t have a lobby organisation in Brussels to represent your interests, I honestly don’t see why you’d want to be a part of an EU dictatorship.
The only thing we plebs may vote for is the European Parliament. Which is a bit of a misnomer, because the EU Parliament has no meaningful power. They may not initiate legislation. Instead, this power resides with the European Commission, a bunch of appointed people that hold prefers to hold their important discussions behind closed doors, and another undemocratic club called the Council of the European Union has a final say in what gets passed and what not. If you’re worried about US presidential candidate Donald Trump, then at least keep two things in mind: The people in the US can decide if they vote him in or not, and the US can impeach him if he turns out to be a disaster to the country. Neither of these democratic control mechanisms are in place for our glorious leader, Jean-Claude Juncker.
The EU has had a lot of time to reform and become more democratic, more transparent and more accountable to the public, but the opposite has happened. They have become more undemocratic, more bureaucratic and more opposed to those very fundamental European values they claim to uphold. A prime example of this is that when countries had a referendum about the EU constitution and several voted against, the EU just ignored these results and implemented the Lisbon treaty (nearly identical text) anyway. The same thing is done with international “trade agreements”: If they are shot down due to protests (ACTA, PIPA, SOPA, etc), they simply try again with a different name until they get it through.
If you’re not financially secure and don’t have a lobby organisation in Brussels to represent your interests, I honestly don’t see why you’d want to be a part of an EU dictatorship.
- Location
- Sweden
The Council is made up of ministers from different European governments, who has been elected democratically. So I don't know where you get the notion it is not democratic? Sorry for the short post but I don't have time to write anything elese but please Britain, for all our sake vote to stay.
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JC Denton
Well-known member
The council is not democratically elected, it is selected behind closed doors by our elected governments. That is not democratic, it is not transparent, it is a club for the old boys in government who do their job - the people in those positions do not represent the people. In the UK, rightly, we have a big problem with the House of Lords, however, in real terms they have very little power and very rarely exercise this power - when they do it is a huge controversy. Why? Because these titles are handed out willy nilly to various people for various things they have done, usually they're friends of powerful government figures and in some cases they are noble people regardless. But it is still unelected. The Parliament has the main power, the House of Lords rarely opposes anything. The EU works the opposite way, our elected MEPs do not propose the legislation, they can not propose legislation - all legislation comes from the commision.
- Location
- Sweden
Well.. where do we ever have that direct kind of democracy you are looking for? All democratic countries works in the way that we vote in a party, and then they decide which person goes where, Foreign Affairs, Defence etc. etc. Why is it different that they pick who will sit in the European Council?
Imagine all the loss of income that Britain will suffer, the tourism will go down, trading will be made harder, you will loose a lot of good will in the european markets..
And the citizens of Great Britain won't be able to travel as freely through Europe either. Everything will be more difficult. It is just beyond me why any country would want to be less globalized and more isolanist in this time and age.
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