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Prison Time Re-work

Charles Vane

Charles Vane

Staff Team
Staff Team
Location
Uganda
Brief Summary: Change the prison times so that people actual begin to fear and respect police as they should be. This i think should be done by changing prison times to ONLY work whilst in the server. I am aware this will be controversial as the usual "this is a game i want to play in my spare time" argument will come up. I do see both sides here and will try to detail why i still think this should happen. 

Detailed Suggestion:

At the minute it seems everyone is a "badman you get me blud say less fuck da feds" and i think that the gangs are so visible on the server newer players only see criminal life and following gangs footsteps is the only way. I would love to see this change and i think that nobody has respect for police and the authority they SHOULD have in the server. (Side note, i know there are some dodgy police and people will just think this is open for police to use that winning mentality even more however thats a whole seperate problem)

Criminals continue to do the same thing day in day out. Do you know how silly i find it when i am in game and i hear someone say that they have murdered police yesterday and got 720 months and then boom next day there back doing what they do again and the cycle repeats. The only real deterrant i see is the propect of life in prison. Which lets be honest some characters should have had this a long time ago. 

I think that people should be spending hours and hours of there in game time in a prison for being a criminal. This would also open up a whole new level of RP because people would have to spend hours upon hours in prison meaning they could make in prison gangs and also gruppe6 would more than likely always have something to do. It gives criminals in prison time to be able to smuggle or get things into prison for them to use to continue business from a cell. I also think it gives the server another avenue to develop. 

Now the skeptics here will say i spend a day at work come home to play for a hour or 2 and then go to bed how can i be expected to spend a week in jail. Well quite frankly, dont do the crime or be smarter and dont get caught doing it. I do not believe that a proper roleplauly session can really be 1 hour long if you are involving yourself in crime/jail sentences. We all know how long it takes to be processed and such. 

I think then, this would also give more use of the courts and time for actual investigations to take place without officers going through hours of investigation/intel gathering and getting the criminal to just sentence them to be back out the next day. I know i wouldnt want to waste my time doing that so why should anyone else that is in CID. 

Before people say this is crazy, i have played servers were all of your prison time had to be spent in game and trust me it was a scary thought going to jail and i think thats the sort of respect we need implementing. It also gave way to some of the most interesting RP scenarios i have ever come across as you end up spending a lot of time with people you generally wouldnt usually. 

I think generally, most of the criminal side of the server get away with way too much and thats why gradually its getting worse and worse in the sense new people see gang life as the only way. 

When new players come into the server now they see how the gangs are, they probably see the lack of respect and care for police and then just follow suit. Then on the other hand if people just come onto the server want to troll police by breaking the law in front of them then have to go spend a couple of hours real time in jail then they sure as hell should learn to not do it again. (I am aware they already would have to do this but they can just log out an play something else for a hour an fome back when its done) 

I think it gives people the ability to create multiple different characters all with different storylines and use the roleplay experience they have gained on a criminal charcter to go into another character which they may not have done otherwise. 

The Pros: 

- Better more realistic roleplay with people actually respecting/fearing the conseqencies of there own actions. 

- Allows another avenue for development whith a whole prison community outside of main city life

- allows characters to RP different things/jobs that are not just criminal. 

- Gets the police the respect they deserve from the player base (Being a cop is tough at the best of times, a bit of respect true to life would be a nice change imo) 

The Cons: 

- Chances of police using this to put people away for way longer than they should (courts and police command would be given the time to look into it without you being released before your sentence is even over and you being past the point of caring then, which in turn will create a better police force) 

- People not wanting there gaming time spent in a prison cell doing nothing (dont do it/get caught,)

- More chance of people being afk in prison (staff have got this)

- Criminal characters/gangs will probably hate this proposal however surely could see the benefit. 

Does this suggestion change balance on the server: Yes, i think on one hand it puts a bit more responsibility onto police to do a proper job.. but at the end of the day if wr cannot trust that faction to do that then we have different issues all together. But then on the other it would hopefully shift the constant warzones hapoening infront of police for people to just log off for the night when being jailed then back at it again tomorrow. 

I would love to hear peoples thoughts as i have said i do see this from both sides as someone who generally does not play a whole lot but i just have to play smarter. Thanks. 

Also should put one of those disclaimers that this is my own thinking not the thinking of the staff team as a whole. 

 
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John Fletcher said:
As of currently all you need to do is take down a radio mast and fly in. Instead I believe it needs to be vamped up with different materials beeding to be used and different locations where puzzles etc have to be solved - a bit like hacking but with more variety to increase difficult. 
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As per an Old Archies Stream, I believe this is still coming he showed how you would break out and it seemed a lot harder than it currently is

 
The idea potentially is good, might deter people from petty crime and stabbing people left and right and trying to rob cops and other things, however, it is really harsh to make some people sit in prison for 12 hours until they get out.

therefore the prison will have to be re-worked as well, as at some times you'll just be sitting there alone for 12, that is actually a long time, its longer than my work shifts used to be.

I would suggest instead that, lets say from 4PM to 02AM  your sentence won't move unless you are actually online,

and if you've been offline for those "peak" hours, the timer will start going down only after those hours.

In my opinion that would be the best case as you should remember, it is still a game, people need to study, work and go outside from time to time.

 
@Charles Vane I feel like I'm on the fence with this. 

I really do like the concept, but I feel like the whole prison thing needs to be looked at. Maybe leave the gates open so smoothies can be made, or other ways to benefit your charector like there is with gym equipment and being able to make smoothies. No idea what though maybe there should be more storage or something you can lock or keep your own stuff in so if your in an out u can work on doing somethings or setting a business up maybe there should be more shit u can do in prison or only do in prison......  I wouldn't mind going to prison if there are ways to keep busy things to do. 

I do feel like the whole gang scene is pathetic at the minute when people in colours etc etc shooting up police, ultimately police are the biggest and most powerful gang in the city and should be the most feared. But police rp of late has been a bit erm shakey. 

 
I'd say +1 as long as we get more stuff to do, not only in prison but also outside prison. At the moment the only good way to make money is either rob someone for weapons and sell them, or sell a bunch of drugs. Both of them are illegal and can land you in prison. As for legal ways, it's mainly doing mechanic work but that doesn't pay a lot. In prison itself there isn't much to do but making smoothies. Most of the time when I'm in prison, I'm just sitting there watching a movie irl until someone talks to me. This means if I get send in for 720 for any reason, that's 12h. A movie lasts around 2h these days, meaning I'd just be watching 6 movies whilst sitting on a bench or farming smoothies as there's fuckall else to do. If we have more legal things we can do that actually pay and we get more stuff to do in prison so we ain't just sitting there being semi afk, I wouldn't mind this system.

 
I personally LOVE the idea.

Anyone familiar with Archeage? They had a similar system in it where you went to prison for real time. the more severe the crime the longer the sentence. it all led to prison breaks etc. one good thing that game did in amongst all the other crud.

I like the idea of balancing the time spent. I would go a step further and say for serious crimes let the police lock up the criminals with a bail system. 2 choices of either pay bail or serve time. If they serve time and then are processed formally and sentenced they can have the time already served deducted. Alternative is they pay a bail fee and are free to go out and interact in the world. The caveat would be they are flagged as on bail in the pnc. any further issues would incorporate much harsher penalties (double or triple standard?).

This would require a careful balancing of penalties. Don't let the police have complete control. Maybe define parameters for offenders depending on what occurred and subject to interaction. like real world. set a range of time for each offense and let whoever does the sentencing decide. particularly violent interactions get higher sentence.

Parole system for prison also on the back end, upon release. Group6 could process a prisoner out and grant early release for good behavior (good rp) etc. however player is then on a long parole period (real time days/weeks).

Also when a player is held in prison/on parole/on bail etc allow judges and solicitors to conduct business in absentia. so if 2 people can be there and present and online but the crim cant then they decide on the issue (possibly? needs more thought) which provides content for the solicitor/judges without requiring the 3rd person being available all the time. much the way real legal matters are handled.

The scope here for the entire judicial system to be worked is HUGE. If done correctly it could be truly awesome.

PS. Ive been to prison once and am not in a gang and personally i loved it. Its got massive potential too.

Thanks Charles for throwing this one open.

 
I have read through the arguments for and against this and am of the opinion that it is, on the whole, a great idea. 

I would like to make a couple of suggestions in support of it - police sentencing should be reviewed and upheld by a senior officer (could even act in lieu of a CPS solicitor) in review alongside the defence solicitor (in the cells). This would avoid any bias at the point of sentencing and remove the likelihood of a pissed off copper using the situation to grief someone. Not saying it happens a lot but this removes the accusation at a later date.  

Let the turf gangs have some sort of colour they could wear in prison to represent their turf - bandana, do rag, stocking cap, whatever you like. 

More jobs to do in prison - more stuff generally, rehabilitation programs so that prisoners could use the time to "skill up" in various roles for work on the outside. 

Work gangs: this is the biggest one and i think would be one of the best. Have gruppe 6 be allowed to escort prisoners off site to go and work for in other places (the mine, fishing etc). Prisoners should be allowed to do manual labour to reduce sentences (at the discretion of G6 as previously stated) but the profits from their labour should go to g6. 

This would/could also allow them to steal stuff and make items to be able to attempt an escape. Iron ingots etc if they go to the smelter, make a copy of a key and escape or make a shank and shank a rival etc etc. 

I would be more than happy to go to prison with these kinds of adventures awaiting me. 

 
Disclaimer: Personal idea, not dev team response

One idea to consider could be requiring a certain percentage of the sentence to be actually served in the prison.

If we assume a 4 hour sentence and 25% here for easy math reasons, the following scenarios would apply:

  • Character is offline for 4 hours, they've served the "full time", but now must roleplay in the prison for an hour before the character is released
  • Character stays online after being sentenced for the "full time" of 4 hours, they are then released.

That percentage value could be anything, maybe even changing based on the rates of serious crime etc

 
I think Jaffa has a very smart idea there.

The problem with the length of time the sentences are is that if you had to play for the entire thing, people who have ample time to play will still be in and out in a jiffy, whereas those who don't have the time will be in there for potentially months or more. A middle ground needs to be met, as Prison RP is important, but also needs to be done in a way that doesn't restrict one type of player more than the other (super active player vs those that play in the little spare time they have). Serving 6 hours on a 12 hour sentence where there is fun RP for someone who can play 30 hours a week is not much, whereas serving a 6 hour sentence for someone who can only play games for 4 hours a week is quite a lot. 

Another way to look at it could be a case of after x days (potentially contextual to the crime), the sentence "gets served" anyway - every 60 minutes = 12 hours longer before you automatically leave prison. this way people are more inclined to play whilst in prison to shorten the time, and those that have lesser time throughout the week don't end up playing jail simulator for 3 weeks before being able to play

 
What I would feel would be great is. If you're online it is how it is 1 min = month. However if offline 5 mins = month. This then x the amount of time needed by 5 when not on server. so if on server its quick however those that can play once a week will be released before their sentance is up. Also to avoid afkers maybe add a system where every know and then prison roll call auto or manuel by g6 where if prisoner doesn't do what is required gets kicked for afk on auto. 

However if you can't play all week your 12 hour sentence is only 60 hours offline. 

 
This is an issue that is ripe for abuse by Police. 

I've given chav scumbag RP to Police before and it rightfully annoys them, they then give abusively long sentences (absolute maximum) for the crimes that you've done, even if within RP you provide multiple mitigating factors.

I've always done 100% of my prison time in-game, beacuse I can cause trouble on tweedle, chat with mates etc. But for people who are more casual (or new) on the server, serving 12-hour sentences because the cop that was locking you up was having a bad day, or was a wanker in general, will just mean people won't come back, because they're forced to spend hours of their life on the server sat in a small area.

This suggestion also heavily favours big gangs who can organise breakouts, whereas the newbies, or lone wolf style players will again be shafted, and if they're lucky enough to get out of prison in a prison break, they're still buggered because the big gang isn't going to let them out.

This issue would be far better with a total rework of the prison system, with an independent person from the Police deciding sentences based on actual legal principles. Whether that involves hiring more judges, I'm not sure. 

 
It would give rise to a proper independent CPS ‐ crown prosecution service. Lawyers of sufficient calibre to decide sentences. Take it away from the police and move it into the hands of a neutral third party. This honestly would be the best most viable solution in my opinion and I would imagine it would be completely doable. 

I wouldn't want to completely remove the police from this process, they should still be able to recommend sentences to individuals but at the point when the person is being sentenced it should be up to the two lawyers to hash out between them based on the circumstances involved. 

Can't do the time - don't do the crime. Simple but effective. 

An alternate option is more robust sentencing guidelines. Not just a maximum limit because some coppers seem to treat this like a speed limit - ie as a target to get to not a limit to stop at. 

Id personally be happy with either idea as it would essentially mean you put your hands in the laps of the lawyers and not the police, a good change honestly. 

 
William Antrim said:
It would give rise to a proper independent CPS ‐ crown prosecution service. Lawyers of sufficient calibre to decide sentences. Take it away from the police and move it into the hands of a neutral third party. This honestly would be the best most viable solution in my opinion and I would imagine it would be completely doable. 

I wouldn't want to completely remove the police from this process, they should still be able to recommend sentences to individuals but at the point when the person is being sentenced it should be up to the two lawyers to hash out between them based on the circumstances involved. 

Can't do the time - don't do the crime. Simple but effective. 

An alternate option is more robust sentencing guidelines. Not just a maximum limit because some coppers seem to treat this like a speed limit - ie as a target to get to not a limit to stop at. 

Id personally be happy with either idea as it would essentially mean you put your hands in the laps of the lawyers and not the police, a good change honestly. 
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i like the idea of having a Lawyer/judge do the sentencing
there's just the issue of, what if none of the mentioned is on? would a suspect just be left in the holding cell until one decides to hop on or is he just gonna be let go?

maybe, limit the sentence a normal officer can give IE. INS and below can only give x amount of time unless being told otherwise by higher ups or judges/lawyers

 
Nikolai said:
i like the idea of having a Lawyer/judge do the sentencing
there's just the issue of, what if none of the mentioned is on? would a suspect just be left in the holding cell until one decides to hop on or is he just gonna be let go?

maybe, limit the sentence a normal officer can give IE. INS and below can only give x amount of time unless being told otherwise by higher ups or judges/lawyers
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Allow the Police to make a request to a higher rank using RL principles of bail & remand to allow them to impose a shorter sentence (that is taken off the total sentence when they go to court) to mimic remand before appearance in a court.

Those that fail the test to be remanded will be released and notified of when their case is due to be heard so they can attend, and if they don't then that character will have FTA warrants, which will severely impact their next attempt at getting bail.

Most questions regarding this have real world counter-parts that work perfectly well.

 
got to admit i currently love the hole working in the prison washing up n stuff to reducde time a little bit but yh would be nice to have to serve some time as well you actually meet some good people in there so to speak.

 
+support do the crime do the time. Needs to be more passive roleplay and better interaction.every interaction I seem to get is "Oi bellend hurry up or ill kill ya" which is rude and very uncivilized and it's a shame some comes from whitelisted gang members.

Police need more respect and the fact there isnt a whole lot of them around sometimes criminal will and do get away with murder.

 
+1 The potential for further RP instead of prisoners just logging off and waking up when there sentence is over sounds so good.

 
can agree but middle ground will need to be found and worked on if such a thing was to be put into the server

 
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