Significantly Increase Prison Sentences for Certain Crimes

[Slop]

Brief Summary:

Lock criminals up for longer.

Detailed Suggestion:

It is expected that Police and Gruppe Sechs operate within the confines of legislation, engaging in a risk based fashion and targetting threats where there is a strong basis to do so. In large group/gang engagements often the burden of proof and the number on people engaging means many criminals escape justice. 

For the few who are then captured, sentences rarely exceed 720 months, and often are a fraction of this.

The implication (I argue) to this is there low risk of capture, and the relatively minimal impact (go play and alt then have a RL sleep) is that same people engage in the same activities night-on-night; along side the perceived lack of other gang activities this leaves the Police facing a constantly loosing battle.

a.) I'm suggesting therefore that those who attack Government Owned buildings (including those operated by contractors), or G6 HQ (attack the money transport on route damnit campers) have sentences that extend for upto 3 RL days.

b.) I'd also argue attacking a police officer should have a longer sentence but imagine this issue to be further contentious that the aboce.

The Pros:

Criminals are unable to commit further crimes for longer.

The Cons:

Criminals are unable to commit further crimes for longer.

Does this suggestion change balance on the server ? Yes

erm, can a mod change title to say 'increase' rather than 'reduce' ... need more caffeine this morning.

 

[TinyBigJacko]

erm, can a mod change title to say 'increase' rather than 'reduce' ... need more caffeine this morning.

Done. 

 

[Mr Moo Youtube]

As someone who works away 5 days of the week and can only play on weekends 720 months / minutes is more than enough time so I’d have to disagree with this. If you where to increase sentences up to three days like suggested  in this post then all the community members facing similar working  situations wouldn’t have the opportunity to play over the weekend as their character 

 

[Slop]

As someone who works away 5 days of the week and can only play on weekends 720 months / minutes is more than enough time so I’d have to disagree with this 

I understand that, I've tried to focus the impact the suggestion to only the things that particularly justify it, rather than all crimes.

As your biggest content fan (/stalker), I'm guessing your objection relates more to part b than a? (ie you want to rob a cop car rather than raid the PD?) 

Can I expand your view on whether attacks on PD/Prison/G6HQ should be punished differently?

 

[Mr Moo Youtube]

I understand that, I've tried to focus the impact the suggestion to only the things that particularly justify it, rather than all crimes.

As your biggest content fan (/stalker), I'm guessing your objection relates more to part b than a? (ie you want to rob a cop car rather than raid the PD?) 

Can I expand your view on whether attacks on PD/Prison/G6HQ should be punished differently?

I think it would depend on the level of the attack and any situation where someone would be jailed for over 24 hours I think a full court case would be needed instead of a ride in the back of the police car to the prison 

 

[TheCap]

I think it would depend on the level of the attack and any situation where someone would be jailed for over 24 hours I think a full court case would be needed instead of a ride in the back of the police car to the prison 

I dont really think it depends on the type of attack, if they attack a PD/Prison/G6HQ, its a terrorism act in my honest opinion. I would say, a attack on said things, or stabbing of a NHS worker should result being sent in to jail for 1400 Months, alot of people are used to sitting in jail for 720 and honestly that aint enough, I believe double should suffice as it would come with a high risk

 

[YuWong]

Unfortunately I disagree with this post, I completely understand where you are coming from, however I believe you have overseen a few things that really weigh up differently for "civilians" compared to "Police / G6"

Any gun, excl the useless Musket costs in excess of £100,000 in todays market, with ammunition fetching over £500 a round now, I'm sure everyone if fairly familiar with the gun making process, which includes over 500 raw units to create a simple pistol, the equivalent of over 50 minutes in Aquiring time (this does not include the time for transport, turning the raw material into processed materials and converting those items into the finished product.) 

My point is, for the "civilian", a gun is either a fairly long process, or a fairly expensive purchase, however for the Police and Group 6, it's a free part of their armory, therefore if they die, they lose nothing.

I agree, that attacking a Government owned building, is a fairly big move and statement, however I don't think imposing longer sentances is the right thing to do.

Alternatively, things I think would be better.

a) Have the Army take control of the building, lethally eliminating any threat inside.

b) Gain intelligence of who has done this and organise raids on their houses, stash, nans purse, to dissuade and prevent them from doing it again

c) Gain intelligence and look to the court to have them arrested for longer periods of time (This provides opportunity for them to defend themselves, it provides a roleplay opportunity for the Judges, Lawyers and the Police)

Unfortunately, ultimately, I don't think giving the Police officers free range to administer sentances over 720 months is a good idea, because across the Police force you have a range of police officers and I think it will end up being used in ways it was not first meant to.

 

[Tokjat]

however for the Police and Group 6, it's a free part of their armory, therefore if they die, they lose nothing.

This statement is not true we pay for the things we take out of the armory the money gets taken from the company or police funds 

 

[Antollyme]

An alternative suggestion would be to make it so the timer doesn’t tick down whilst offline. Then you could nearly reduce the prison times whilst increasing the punishment of having to play out the time served (afk players would be kicked/banned from the server)

 

[Slop]

An alternative suggestion would be to make it so the timer doesn’t tick down whilst offline. Then you could nearly reduce the prison times whilst increasing the punishment of having to play out the time served (afk players would be kicked/banned from the server)

This is a good idea too (the real point of this thread to trigger such things!); only additional consideration is making sure we have a sufficiently well resourced (and more bumps) G6.

 

[Namron]

My opinion: I think that it's a good idea to extend the time people can be put in prison, so long as that time continues to tick while they are offline / playing as another character. (I'd keep it ticking offline so that people who are jailed for a long time e.g 12 hours and leave to 'cool off' and return in a few months they aren't still jailed with 11 gametime hours remaining)

My counterargument around 'it takes up peoples entire weekend if it's 48 hours' would be that players are highly encouraged to explore a range of roleplay careers across different characters, and being in jail is a good chance to do that. 

It's worth remembering that these are 'roleplay' / internal guidelines rather than 'development' restrictions, so leading on from that my suggestion for extensions would probably be this:

• Upto 720 months / 12 hours - Police Constables +
  
• Upto 1440 months / 24 hours - Police Sergeants +
  
• Upto 2880 months / 48 hours - Police Inspectors  +
  
• Upto 3600 months / 72 hours - Police Superintendent +
  
• Above 3600 months / 72 hours+ - Court Decision 
  
• Indefinite Imprisonment / Life (until appealed) - Court Decision with Management/Dev Lead approval and backing
  

These should only be used for repeat offenders still - the vast majority of non-serial criminals should get under 720

The only exception to this - I'd continue to allow any officer to double the sentence for someone that has escaped, since there's no real decision to be made. 

 

[TomIce]

This is a good idea too (the real point of this thread to trigger such things!); only additional consideration is making sure we have a sufficiently well resourced (and more bumps) G6.

As much as I would like to agree I am going to side with @Mr Moo Youtube

As another member of the community who has a busy schedule in and out of work pre-dominantly through weekdays this could seriously impact playtime and / or enjoyment. Maybe there needs to be an increase somewhere on more serious crimes (terrorist attack or what would be considered a terrorist attack as an example). Alternatively instead of just 'upping' the prison time maybe add a variety of punishments (prison time + a freeze on their bank account for X time on release + freeze on vehicle from storage for X time after release).

Unfortunately I feel this would be a tough suggestion to implement to be able to cater to everyone given the variety of commitment and responsibilities between the community if you just solely increase prison time.

Just my two cents.

 

[MacDonald]

I think this is a bit ridiculous. Why should people be essentially barred from playing for multiple days for doing something that is part of the game? Why should criminals be stopped from committing crimes? Surely that is the point of being a criminal.

I ask you this. Who does this benefit, and how.

 

[Slop]

I must of been unclear, the objective is to make the same person not be able to attack the prison for four nights on the trot; having consequences to such action to reflect the realism that the other side (Police) are trying to work to.

As Norman has suggest, its not barring them from playing, it's providing an opportunity to explore other a range of other careers if they don't want to do prison RP.

 

[Namron]

I think this is a bit ridiculous. Why should people be essentially barred from playing for multiple days for doing something that is part of the game?

This is very much 'the Arma mentality'

On FiveM players are highly encouraged to explore a range of roleplay careers across their different characters, and being in jail is a good chance to do that. 

Why should criminals be stopped from committing crimes? Surely that is the point of being a criminal.

Smart 'criminals' or leaders of organisations commit crimes and don't get caught. This is how most of the high risk gun / drug trade works.

Guns-blazing 'criminals' get caught and go to prison. Hopefully to 'cool off', reflect on their mistakes, have some good prison RP, plan their revenge, plan how to not get caught again or play another character. 

I ask you this. Who does this benefit, and how.

This suggestion protects the rest of the server from guns-blazing poor roleplayers who are just here for repeated trolly behaviour or repeated gunfights. As far as I'm aware this suggestion would only punish recurring criminals. Gunfights haven't previously been, and shouldn't need to be common place. 

The alternative to some of our previous extended imprisonments could of been banning them, but this gives them the opportunity to reflect on their mistakes and even play another character. 

 

[MacDonald]

This suggestion protects the rest of the server from guns-blazing poor roleplayers

Does it? Does it really? because I find it very very unlikely that all or even most of the people that would be given these insane sentences would be given them for "poor roleplay". This suggests that you are blanketing all of those who commit a certain crime as being poor at roleplay which makes absolutely no sense.

This is very much 'the Arma mentality'

And no, its the "I understand that this is a video game and find it very weird that people want in-game punishments that stop people playing their character for 3 real life days because they are tired of losing" mentality.

Take a step back and realise frankly how sad it is. 

There must be another way that doesn't involve such a blanketing method of "punishment".

if the issue is really about, as you say, gun-blazing poor roleplay. There are already rules in place to deal with this and it is punished accordingly. 

If the same thing keeps happening over and over again, how about learning from it and adapting tactics to counter it.

 

[Tigerforce]

I really dont know where i stand on this.

One one hand i do kind of agree that police should be able to give more then 8 hour sentences for a very specific reason. We have dealt with people before he ran then started mass shooting officers leading to many injuries / deaths and yet we only give 8 hours which if at night not really a punishment as you wake up and you are out again and because of this i do agree with police should be able to give more sentences.

However having said this i have seen times people decide to put suspects in for a long amount of time for BS reasons and that is unwarranted and as such if this was added i do think it could be easily abused and cause some problems.

And in regards to prison sentences i do have to agree the sentences need to be reworks as some charges give to much and some too little however that just me.

My suggestion to this in regards to this suggestions is have it so officers can give people 12 hour sentences. 12-24 Hour sentences need authorisation from a set rank and for anything above that need to go through the courts. The exception to this is prison breaks. The reason i say this as it provides to punishment but at the same time add barriers to prevent abuse and not to mention allows higher sentences to be authorised. Some may agree and others may disagree however i think this is even ground to what the suggestion is aiming for and to ensure we dont have it where people are losing 3 IRL days of playing on there criminal characters.

unless authorised by the courts

 

[Melondwarf]

Not entirely sure how the police are able to operate, but surely you would be able to put in some rules tied to criminal records. For example if someone gets sent to prison for 5-8 hours every night (or somesuch) the prison time could incrase?
No need to send everyone and their grandmother to prison for 3 days, just the ones that keep getting caught each and every day doing the same thing.
IMO there'd have to be some sort of de-escalation of the prison time as well, so that if you're a good boy for a while, the time starts dropping.

(This is going on the assumption that the police can see "this lad was sentenced to serve X time Y days ago")
 

 

[Slop]

Yeap to clarify, I was using the upto 3 days in the same way we sentence upto 720; rather than a 'by default if you shoot near pd your in for 72 hours"; I really liked Normans suggestion that adds checks and measures to make sure that process is robust.